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Jul 12, 2019 16:03
4 yrs ago
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French term

badge à longue impulsion

French to English Tech/Engineering Engineering (general) Elevators/lifts
From specifications for a lift/elevator control system.

"Maintenir le bouton palier appuyé est sans conséquence : traitement activation de la fonction maintenant sur front montant pour compatibilité avec clé au palier / **badge à longue impulsion**"
Proposed translations (English)
1 +4 long-pulse keycard
3 -1 rising edge generated by the key card

Discussion

Johannes Gleim Jul 14, 2019:
@ Mark As shown there are a lot of questions about the strange term « badge à longue impulsion ». It may be a wrong translation from another language. I would ask the client for its signification.

Below, I summarize all arguments against « longue-pulse keycard» :

- No Ghits for "badge à longue impulsion", hence highly questionnable
- Literal translation of questionable term, unproven
- Electromagnetic pulses are always short by definition
- Only the rising edge activates the lift
- The pulse width is irrelevant, and has no effect
- A long waiting time prior to the elevator start is undesired by passengers
Johannes Gleim Jul 14, 2019:
Suite Exemples d’application correcte du terme « longue impulsion » :

Vous disposez de plusieurs modes d’émission d’air : longue impulsion, courte impulsion ou émission d’air continue.
https://www.panasonic-electric-works.com/be/pistolet-antista...

Ou
Par l'intermédiaire d'une oscillation de plasma, l'énergie d'une longue impulsion laser de pompe peut être transférée à une impulsion courte (« seed »).
https://hal-polytechnique.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-01467094/
(i.e. une série d’impulsions).

, c’est-à dire une courte impulsion provoque le changement d'état marche/arrêt, une longue impulsion provoque le passage en mode régulation de luminosité.
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...
(appuyant longuement le bouton)
Johannes Gleim Jul 13, 2019:
@ Daryo Please check the number of Ghits for each particle of the term to translate or the 'translation' and consider how much Ghits you should expect for the compound. What to conclude from the effective frequency?

Je me répète : Les longues impulsions n'existent pas. Les impulsions sont toujours courtes. Ce terme est faux. Voir aussi la définition d'impulsion :

En électricité/électronique, une impulsion est une variation brève et rapide d'un état électrique généralement utilisé comme signal.
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulsion

Same in English:
A pulse in signal processing is a rapid, transient change in the amplitude of a signal from a baseline value to a higher or lower value, followed by a rapid return to the baseline value
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_(signal_processing)

Ce fait devrait être connu de tous les collègues ayant au moins une formation secondaire et qui ont suivies le cours de physique attentivement.
Daryo Jul 13, 2019:
about Google as "THE proof" of anything There used to be a running joke / half-serious saying that "if it wasn't in the news, it didn't happen".

It seems that there is now a "modern" version of the same: if it's not on Google, it doesn't exist.

Don't confuse the image for the real thing.
Johannes Gleim Jul 13, 2019:
@ Raoul Thank you for this piece of information. Your badge has surely a magnetic stripe.

Credit cards have a magnetic stripe conforming to the ISO/IEC 7813. Many modern credit cards have a computer chip embedded in them as a security feature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card
A magnetic stripe card is a type of card capable of storing data by modifying the magnetism of tiny iron-based magnetic particles on a band of magnetic material on the card. The magnetic stripe, sometimes called swipe card or magstripe, is read by swiping past a magnetic reading head. Magnetic stripe cards are commonly used in credit cards, identity cards, and transportation tickets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_stripe_card

Example:
You wouldn’t translate "The driver drove an angry car" as this is pure nonsense, but modify the phrase to "The angry driver drove the car" as angry cars doesn’t exist. It’s the same with "badge à longue impulsion". "pulse" refers to the electronic (also to a card chip, if embedded), not to the badge (identity card). Only the circuit and/or the reader exchange electromagnetic signals, treated by the IT system.
Raoul COLIN (X) Jul 13, 2019:
badge (d'entrée - de commande) mine, to enter my building, is a rather thin magnet, no card, applied flat against a receiver set on the wall next to the door
Tony M Jul 13, 2019:
@ Phil Well said that man!
I have had arguments in the past with people who refused to believe in the existence of a term of which i had 100% certain knowledge, simply because it didn't happen to have made it onyo Google yet.
There is a vast body of knowledge out there that, for one reason or another has not yet found its way onto the 'Net.
philgoddard Jul 12, 2019:
Johannes I hope civilization hasn't yet reached the point where, if something doesn't exist on Google, it can't exist in real life.
Anyway, http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=EAwpXa2...
Johannes Gleim Jul 12, 2019:
@ philgoddard We start wrongly, if we try to translate literally. We have first to understand and rephrase it with own wordings.

Prove:
No Ghits for "badge à longue impulsion" found, proving that such a term must be wrong.
https://www.google.de/search?lr=&hl=de&biw=1070&bih=642&ei=i...
A literal translation of wrong terms is very questionable, accordingly.
In fact: No Ghits found either for "long-pulse key card" or "long-pulse keycard".
https://www.google.de/search?lr=&hl=de&biw=1070&bih=642&ei=P...
philgoddard Jul 12, 2019:
Tony Why don't you put "long-pulse keycard" as an answer?
Johannes Gleim Jul 12, 2019:
@ Mark Yes, this is more comprehensible. The landing key/button will also activate the system on the first moment of contact as the key card on the rising edge.
Mark Bossanyi (asker) Jul 12, 2019:
@Johannes Gleim I think a "palier" is a landing (i.e. a level where the lift stops and its door opens) and a "bouton palier" is the button you press for the lift to go to a particular landing.
Johannes Gleim Jul 12, 2019:
@ Mark I suppose that the "palier" is the same as "front montant", a rising edge (une flanc montée). But what is "bouton palier"? A button activated by the rising edge?
Tony M Jul 12, 2019:
@ Asker In essence, 'long pulse' key-card — it is saying it doesn't matter how long (or short) the pulse is: the system responds only to the initial rising edge.
philgoddard Jul 12, 2019:
I think a "badge" is a keycard. I'm not sure what "longue impulsion" is, though.

Proposed translations

+4
3 hrs
Selected

long-pulse keycard

I'm pretty sure that's the sense, though I'm not sure if this is really the 'official' term — if indeed there is one!

But this text seems to be saying that the system, because it reacts (as is normal) only to a rising edge, is insensitive to the LENGTH of the pulse that follows — whether that is someone holding a button in too long, or a keycard that is specifically designed to emit long pulses (presumably to create a greater 'window' for activation)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-07-13 17:24:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Most modern access-control 'badges' of this keycard type actually have passive RFID devices, and when they come within range of their target, the RFID circuit is powered and triggers a 'pulse', which can be of varying length, either for coding purposes, or more usually, simply to allow a longer 'window' in which the access control circuit can be triggered — to account for varying distances and the way people may "wave" or "swipe" (etc.) the card past the terminal.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days 14 hrs (2019-07-16 06:13:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It's really very simply: some keycards emit only a short pulse (all that ought to be necessary!), while others emit a longer pulse (possibly for the reasons already mentioned above); this is a point that rarely needs to be discussed, so isn't often mentioned.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Johannes Gleim : Correct explanation, but questionable target term. What is a long-pulse key card? Why should the pulse width been attributed to the card? // Its the front edge pulse from the circuit, not a long pulse from the card. Your'e sure, but I miss any proof.
1 hr
Because it is the card that generates the pulse! As I explained... / I'm sure because I understand how these things work, having done a great deal of work with these kinds of systems.
agree Kim Metzger
1 hr
Thanks, Kim!
agree philgoddard
2 hrs
Thanks, Phil!
agree Daryo : abbreviated like that it might sounds as nonsense when taken literally (as in: a piece of plastic can't have "pulses"), but it wouldn't be the first time that an abbreviation sounds weird when you take out of the equation the implied/omitted elements.
21 hrs
Thanks, Daryo!
agree Michael Confais (X)
3 days 1 hr
Merci, Michael !
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
3 hrs

rising edge generated by the key card

See discussion.

A rising edge on the input turns on the associated output. With a further rising edge, the output is turned off again
https://www.verdom.ro/hotel-lighting-controller

Rising edge detector
The output produces a single pulse when a rising edge is detected
:
Falling edge detector
The output Q produces a single pulse when a falling edge is detected
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...

Unfortunately, I could not found a link describing a rising edge issued or generated by a key card or the reader. I found some links for readers communicating to an IT system for verification of the key card using rising edge technology, but not related to the key card as such. I therefore propose to circumscribe the term as following:

"Keeping the button pressed has no consequence: The function is now activated on the rising edge in order to harmonize the selection of the landing either by the key switch contact or the rising edge generated by the key card."

In this case the term "generated by the key card" is also valid if the reader issues the pulses as this is prompted by the card.
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : You've taken the wrong part of Tony's discussion comment. The question is about "à longue impulsion".
33 mins
The width of pulse has no influence on the switching. It's the rising edge of pulse who activates the system.
disagree Tony M : Although this concept is relevant in the context here, this does not correctly translate either the term asked, or the obvious intention of that term. Only "nonsense" if one fails to understand it; you're over-interpreting on basis of your prior knowledge
12 hrs
You cannot insist of translating nonsense literally, but consider the real function and call it as I did..
neutral Daryo : this seems to be a new system - you can't always extrapolate previous knowledge on a maybe completely new system.
21 hrs
It sounds being very new, but it wouldn't work. The duration of pulse has no effect. A pulse has only short duration. Otherwise it's no pulse, but switching LOW to HIGHT. And nobody is interested in waiting long until the lift starts.
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