| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Non-payment for repetitions in PDF document Thread poster: Camilla Ferard
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| Yes, you can convert it yourself, but... | May 27, 2010 |
John Fossey wrote:
Even with good OCR software, converting from an image often takes extra work to correct the character recognition, and repeats don't give any advantage there.
1) this software is not just free
2) it nearly always needs heavy formating
So if the agency does not like to invest in a good OCR software and format the text for you, you just need to be paid in full. I would even claim an extra-charge for not editable documents.
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 10:58
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Is it easy to find and copy the repetitions? | May 27, 2010 |
Camilla Ferard wrote:
An agency doesn't want to pay me for repetitions in a PDF document.
If the time it takes to find and copy the repetitions (relative to the total time for completing the whole job), then it may be reasonable to charge nothing for the repetitions.
However, I think you should tell the client that it takes time (a) to find repetitions in the source text, (b) to carefully read each repetition to ensure that it is truly a 100% match and that nothing needs to be altered, (c) to find each repetitions's translation and (d) to copy it into the correct place in the translation.
So, if the agency wants a discount for repetitions, they should (a) mark all repetitions in the file themselves, so that you don't spend any time on it, (b) mark the first instance of the repetition, so that you may know which marked text to ignore and which marked text to translate, and (c) copy the translated repetitions into the correct places in the translation themselves, so that you don't have to spend time doing it.
| | | | | Agree with Lesley | Jul 5, 2010 |
Lesley Clarke wrote:
PDF files can be converted, I convert them all the time, including scanned legal documents, however that takes time and I wouldn't do it for free.
We are paid to translate - not to replace the customer's secretary, or do a page layout job. Those are extras, and I always charge for "extras" - that includes the time spent converting a pdf (I've never yet met any pdf conversion software that doesn't require a lot of manual cleaning up after conversion).
Possibly the customer is unfamiliar with the constraints of translation - not all customers have regular contacts with our profession, after all - and it might just be worth explaining the problems to him before taking a stand.
However .... when push comes to shove, you either have to say, "No, I don't accept that", and negotiate a better deal, or walk away from it.
In the end, it is just a question of how much you need the business.
| | | | Paula Borges
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:58
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Michael GREEN wrote: Lesley Clarke wrote:
PDF files can be converted, I convert them all the time, including scanned legal documents, however that takes time and I wouldn't do it for free.
We are paid to translate - not to replace the customer's secretary, or do a page layout job. Those are extras, and I always charge for "extras" - that includes the time spent converting a pdf (I've never yet met any pdf conversion software that doesn't require a lot of manual cleaning up after conversion). Possibly the customer is unfamiliar with the constraints of translation - not all customers have regular contacts with our profession, after all - and it might just be worth explaining the problems to him before taking a stand. However .... when push comes to shove, you either have to say, "No, I don't accept that", and negotiate a better deal, or walk away from it. In the end, it is just a question of how much you need the business.
My work is to translate, I'm not a graphic designer. However, I always deliver the documents in the same exact format, which is extra work. I do not charge for that specifically but I don't work for free, it's my time and effort you're buying.
I don't accept discounts for repeated words, no matter what. Have you ever heard of an agency charging a client less because there are repeated words? I used to work in a company and purchase translations, so I know how much it costs and there no discounts based on repetitions.
Just because a word is repeated it doesn't mean I didn't have to type it again, read it again, check it again... If I keep spilling mustard on my jacket the dry-cleaners won't charge me any less because they've cleaned that before.
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Lesley Clarke wrote:
But I am not one of them.
I think Giovanni's solution is best or else just turn the job down.
PDF files can be converted, I convert them all the time, including scanned legal documents, however that takes time and I wouldn't do it for free.
Exactly my thoughts...
| | | | | In fact the translator ought to be setting the rate... | Jul 6, 2010 |
You are an independent agent in business, not an employee.
If they want you to do the work, then you should decide what to charge for it.
Practically no one does repeats entirely for free, even if it is fair enough at times to give a discount.
Best of luck!
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Paula Borges wrote:
Have you ever heard of an agency charging a client less because there are repeated words? I used to work in a company and purchase translations, so I know how much it costs and there no discounts based on repetitions.
yes, I have heard of them and I work for one of them! They offer discounts to their clients on the basis of repetitions using Trados...
| | | | Abdelhalim Zeid
Egypt
Local time: 11:58
Member (2010)
English to Arabic
+ ...
You should apply 25% of compensate rate for repetitions and exact matches if any.
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Angela Dickson (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:58
French to English
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| Repeated words | Jul 6, 2010 |
Paula Borges wrote:
I don't accept discounts for repeated words, no matter what. Have you ever heard of an agency charging a client less because there are repeated words? I used to work in a company and purchase translations, so I know how much it costs and there no discounts based on repetitions.
Just because a word is repeated it doesn't mean I didn't have to type it again, read it again, check it again...
I often read posts in these forums that mention "repeated words" in this way, and I wonder if translators really do believe that some clients try to get discounts based on repetitions of individual words.
What is invariably meant in these situations is repeated segments, usually sentences, which are picked up by your CAT tool/TenT. The whole point is that you don't have to type them again - you just do a brief check to make sure the match/repetition is OK in context (for which it is entirely legitimate to ask for payment).
And yes, some agencies do offer concessions if clients' documents are repetitive in this way.
Edit to answer the original poster's question: I would ask the agency for an analysis of the repetitions, and the text in an editable form, before I'd even consider offering this kind of concession. I'm not about to do extra work converting and analysing a text in order to assess potential discounts.
[Edited at 2010-07-06 12:48 GMT]
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