| Stran v tématu: [1 2] > | Message for the agencies and direct clients: rates vs. quality Autor vlákna: Sandrine Pantel
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Sandrine Pantel 
Francie
Local time: 07:02
Člen (2015)
němčina -> francouzština
+ ...
I live in France and I've been working as an independant translator DE>FR and EN>FR for about 1,5 years.
I simply would like to communicate about my experience in terms of rates and the quality expected by the clients (translation agencies and direct clients).
For example, I recently had an offer for the translation of a website for a direct customer. In order to insure a high-quality translation, I estimate about 300 words translated pro hour. Insuring a high-quality t... See more I live in France and I've been working as an independant translator DE>FR and EN>FR for about 1,5 years.
I simply would like to communicate about my experience in terms of rates and the quality expected by the clients (translation agencies and direct clients).
For example, I recently had an offer for the translation of a website for a direct customer. In order to insure a high-quality translation, I estimate about 300 words translated pro hour. Insuring a high-quality translation also means taking the time to research terms on the Internet, to ask the customer questions in case of doubt, etc. With the price offered, this project meant for me earning less than 20,00 €/hour.
Translation agencies come back to me whenever they get feedbacks from their proofreaders, so that I have to control and confirm (or not) the modifications made by the proofreaders. I spent an hour on this today for a project I had translated, only to find out that the proofreader had corrected sentences which were actually correct...
I simply want to point out here the lack of consideration we get as independant translators.
The clients want high-quality translations, impeccable quality, impeccable lay-out and they often demand the use of a precise CAT-Tool, most often Trados (not particularly cheap to buy...).
I find it more than normal and as a professional translator, I WANT to deliver high-quality translations!
But I just find revolting that the clients are not prepared to pay reasonable prices for this quality. I assume they don't understand the amount of work it represents, the linguistic knowledge and research it implies. Maybe they think speaking a foreign language is enough to be a good translator?
I have been offering my services to translation agencies for 1,5 years now, and found out it is almost impossible to find an agency willing to pay more than 0,10-0,09€/source word. Most of the time, they can only offer 0,07-0,08€/w.
I have seen offers here on Proz for 0,05€/word, with the obligation to use Trados!!
How can we, as independant translators, make the customers aware of the efforts our work represents? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Angela Malik
Velká Británie
Local time: 06:02
němčina -> angličtina
+ ...
| Wrong focus? | Jun 17, 2015 |
Sandrine Pantel wrote:
The clients want high-quality translations, impeccable quality, impeccable lay-out and they often demand the use of a precise CAT-Tool, most often Trados (not particularly cheap to buy...).
Not all clients care about impeccable quality. As translators we obviously want to do our best, which means producing work that meets an "impeccable quality" standard. But some clients don't care for "impeccable", especially if that level of quality is expensive. If "impeccable" is outside of their budget and/or if "impeccable" is not really necessary for their particular text, they'll settle for "accurate".
I WANT to deliver high-quality translations!
...
I have been offering my services to translation agencies for 1,5 years now, and found out it is almost impossible to find an agency willing to pay more than 0,10-0,09€/source word. Most of the time, they can only offer 0,07-0,08€/w.
There will be a natural cap in any market and language combination, but to me this sounds like you are simply targeting the wrong clients. If you want to earn more, if you want to be quality-focused, then one solution would be to target those types of clients. Believe me, there are clients out there who will pay more and who appreciate quality!
How can we, as independant translators, make the customers aware of the efforts our work represents?
Based on what you've written, I wonder if perhaps the question should be, "How do I present my prices in a way that will not invite conflict and debate from clients?"
If you work with agencies, they *should* already be aware of the efforts your work represents. If they're not willing to pay the price you think is fair for your level of quality, then you should move on and find other clients. Agencies DO often want "impeccable" translations for cheap because that is what they're promising the customer -- but it's easy for them to promise the customer perfection at low prices because they're not the ones who actually have to make a living translating the texts. Not all agencies are like this, though -- there are some who pay really reasonable rates to their suppliers.
When it comes to end clients, I think you need to shift the focus of your sales pitch. Too often I think translators focus too much on quality in their sales pitches, because they assume that quality is the top priority for the client. But the reality is, sometimes quality is not the top priority. Sometimes budget constraints are. Sometimes they just have to get something translated to meet some standard guideline and they don't plan on doing anything but filing the translation away for their records. Those clients don't care if your translation is elegant and impeccable, they just want to tick the box (get this translated for the records - check) and move on with their lives.
My advice would be to ask pointed questions about the job and listen to the subtext. In the client's responses, you can see from the subtext whether this is a client who really NEEDS quality or who is going to be more price-conscious. Is this an internal company document or will this text fall into the hands of the company's customers? Is it a technical document that needs to be accurate but not necessarily elegant? If they're sending you a PDF, do they have the original native file which will speed up your work and potentially give you flexibility to be able to offer a lower price? A lot of factors besides word count and CAT tool affect your ability to offer a certain service at a certain price.
Edited to add:
I guess what I am trying to say is that some clients don't care what efforts you have to make to get your job done -- that's YOUR problem. So instead of wondering how to get them to understand YOUR side, shift the focus to THE CLIENT. Make your sales pitch about what you can do for them. If a client understands how all your efforts benefit them, they will be more willing to pay the price you need to get the job done properly.
[Edited at 2015-06-17 17:57 GMT]
| | | | | Wrong focus! | Jun 17, 2015 |
It is possible to work for well paying direct clients and agencies, you just need to focus them, Sandrine.
In case this is interesting for you: I organize a workshop on how getting direct customers in Nantes on June 30th.
| | | | Sandrine Pantel
Francie
Local time: 07:02
Člen (2015)
němčina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU
Thanks a lot for your quick answers!
The problem is, most agencies want absolute quality, otherwise if they get a negative feedback from the proofreader, they get back to you and demand that you justify your "errors" and comment/confirm the proofreader's corrections, which takes additional time which is not taken into account in the offered rates...
It is very strange that I so often hear I target the wrong agencies. I even target agencies in Switzerland or Austria, whe... See more Thanks a lot for your quick answers!
The problem is, most agencies want absolute quality, otherwise if they get a negative feedback from the proofreader, they get back to you and demand that you justify your "errors" and comment/confirm the proofreader's corrections, which takes additional time which is not taken into account in the offered rates...
It is very strange that I so often hear I target the wrong agencies. I even target agencies in Switzerland or Austria, where one could think the rates are higher, but is is very, very rare to find an agency willing to pay 0,10/0,11€/w! I wonder what I can be doing wrong...
I surely need to target more direct customers, which is also difficult as I don't live in the countries where my source languages are spoken.
I would be interested in your workshop, Mrs. Halbritter, but I suppose you will mostly recommend to meet the potentiel direct customers during professional fairs and other such events? ▲ Collapse
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As well, but not only, as I got your mail address I send you some information.
| | | | | rework your website and your CV | Jun 17, 2015 |
Hi Sandrine,
If you want to target direct clients in German speaking countries you should rework the German version of your website and your CV. The language in both texts is a bit clumsy and reads like a word by word translation from French. If I were a German company I would hesitate to place an order with you, because the texts do not sound convincing. They need a bit of transcreation and lots of editing.
[Edited at 2015-06-17 19:12 GMT]
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You are right, Maria. The texts on the website should be reworked.
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do you organize workshops in other countries (e.g. Germany) as well?
Sandrine, same here.
Quite a few fancy high-quality translations at low rates.
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Sandrine Pantel
Francie
Local time: 07:02
Člen (2015)
němčina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU
That's odd, for a German professional translator had proofread my website!
| | | | | Take control | Jun 17, 2015 |
I sympathise with the problems you describe, and I am sure many colleagues reading this thread feel your pain! That said, being freelance has the advantage that if you do not like your current situation, you are at least in a position to do something about it.
Sandrine Pantel wrote:
With the price offered, this project meant for me earning less than 20,00 €/hour.
That is not the agency's fault. You should have calculated the rate you would earn BEFORE accepting the job. If it was too low, why accept it?
Sandrine Pantel wrote:
Translation agencies come back to me whenever they get feedbacks from their proofreaders, so that I have to control and confirm (or not) the modifications made by the proofreaders. I spent an hour on this today for a project I had translated, only to find out that the proofreader had corrected sentences which were actually correct...
This sounds like poor practice on the part of the agency, and one you would be better off without! My suggestion would be to work towards finding better agencies, and losing the ones whose practices are too time-consuming and uneconomic.
My point is that the power lies in YOUR hands. There are literally thousands of agencies out there - find some that better suit you as a professional. Low prices are more common in popular linguistic combinations - why not consider working with direct clients?
Good luck!!
| | | | Sandrine Pantel
Francie
Local time: 07:02
Člen (2015)
němčina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU
Fiona Peterson wrote:
That is not the agency's fault. You should have calculated the rate you would earn BEFORE accepting the job. If it was too low, why accept it?
The project was divided into product sheets, 0,40€/sheet, and I couldn't really estimate in advance how many of them I could translate in an hour. When I let the client know the hourly rate did not suit me, they looked for someone else. It is true that I should have made a try in the first place to see whether it was financially interesting for me. But my point is, how can a company expect quality work for such low prices? For 20,00€/hour, I won't pay as much attention to the quality...
Sandrine Pantel wrote:
Translation agencies come back to me whenever they get feedbacks from their proofreaders, so that I have to control and confirm (or not) the modifications made by the proofreaders. I spent an hour on this today for a project I had translated, only to find out that the proofreader had corrected sentences which were actually correct...
Fiona Peterson wrote:This sounds like poor practice on the part of the agency, and one you would be better off without! My suggestion would be to work towards finding better agencies, and losing the ones whose practices are too time-consuming and uneconomic.
My point is that the power lies in YOUR hands. There are literally thousands of agencies out there - find some that better suit you as a professional. Low prices are more common in popular linguistic combinations - why not consider working with direct clients?
Good luck!!
Thanks and yes, the key is to look for better paying agencies and direct clients, I had such bad experiences these last days that I just wanted to share my feelings!
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Gudrun,
this summer I only propose two workshops in Nantes. One on June 30th and the other one on July 2nd. There shall be more workshops in Western France from September on.
At the moment I do not propose any workshops in Germany as we are two trainers for every workshop, a professional coach specialising in small companies and me. (The language of the workshops is French.)
Flights from Munich to Nantes and back are not very expensive though. You can get o... See more Gudrun,
this summer I only propose two workshops in Nantes. One on June 30th and the other one on July 2nd. There shall be more workshops in Western France from September on.
At the moment I do not propose any workshops in Germany as we are two trainers for every workshop, a professional coach specialising in small companies and me. (The language of the workshops is French.)
Flights from Munich to Nantes and back are not very expensive though. You can get one for 70 € already and the price of the workshops is not that high. (Also this may be combinated with a holiday in Brittany... ...)
For those who'd like to get more information: [email protected] ▲ Collapse
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EvaVer (X)
Local time: 07:02
čeština -> francouzština
+ ...
| If it were only that... | Jun 18, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote:
Not all clients care about impeccable quality. As translators we obviously want to do our best, which means producing work that meets an "impeccable quality" standard. But some clients don't care for "impeccable", especially if that level of quality is expensive. If "impeccable" is outside of their budget and/or if "impeccable" is not really necessary for their particular text, they'll settle for "accurate".
Unfortunately, many will settle for less that that. I encounter some awful translations (that are certainly not accurate, sometimes not even understandable or making any sense) - both as a proofreader or provided by clients as reference material - and when I object, clients say "that's OK, we know what they mean" or "we are used to it".
| | | | LilianNekipelov
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 01:02
ruština -> angličtina
+ ...
| Yes, that's what many do, unfortunately. | Jun 18, 2015 |
Sandrine Pantel wrote:
Translation agencies come back to me whenever they get feedbacks from their proofreaders, so that I have to control and confirm (or not) the modifications made by the proofreaders. I spent an hour on this today for a project I had translated, only to find out that the proofreader had corrected sentences which were actually correct...
It happened to me only twice (out of hundreds of jobs) but some editors and proofreaders think that they have to change very single sentence and make it sound the way they would have said it (sometimes slightly better, but often much worse) to earn the bread, meaning being paid for the editing, or proofreading. They may actually need some serious training in the field of proofreading, even if just monolingual. There are very specific rules as to proofreading.
[Edited at 2015-06-18 07:55 GMT]
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Andrea, for the information.
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