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Anybody in the U.S. worried about the ProAct?
Thread poster: Esther Pugh
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 13:38
Romanian to English
+ ...
I think that your perspective is too grim Apr 20, 2021

Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:

Esther Pugh wrote:
So we'll see.....




Anyone who's seen the prices announced (or enforced) recently by the major 2-3 agencies (which control about 90% of certain languages) would wonder if it's even worth worrying about it. It's not as if we'll lose a gold mine.

Those with direct clients can still work without restrictions, since the ABC test doesn't apply to them.
It only affects those working with agencies. Agencies with sufficient volumes are now working with MT and the new prices amount to something like 2-3 cents per word, more or less. Agencies that pay more and don't care about MT don't have enough volume to cover even modest groceries. And the volume that still pays a decent rate is decreasing rapidly. Even agencies that want to pay their translators more, cave in to competition by the cheap gigantic ones.

You can differentiate yourself with much better quality and good writing, and guess what - nobody cares. This is a result of my own investigation after reviewing, as an editor, a large number of projects for over 6 months lately, producing a detailed report and sending/storing my own reports. My conclusion is that "even 10 critical errors per 1,000 words is ok, as long as their clients never notice. Not talking synonyms or legal ambiguities here; I'm talking about translating a donkey as a banana, that bad. I'm talking about Google Trans sounding like a professor by comparison. PMs are unable to tell the good translator from the bad, they don't speak the language. In the vast majority of cases they pick according to personal feelings or impressions or resume exaggerations.
It's all the rage nowadays to start an agency (all you need is 1 computer and 1 desk) in any industry you pick out of a phone book, and make a casino-like Project Software that forces professionals to wait all day looking at the screen in their agony not to miss something that pops-up - the critical effects on their health are ENORMOUS (high blood pressure, poor circulation, weak bones, various orthopedic issues, deep vein thrombosis, pancreas and stomach problems, weak immune system, etc), let alone zero social connections and zero job-related opportunities. This is cave-based labor now. Misery for the translator, but it works like a charm for the agency. And if they realize that, they'll probably send us an email telling us to walk around the desk 30 times every 10 minutes, so that they feel better about themselves taking care of it.

Of course one can take on an enormous daily volume of work at almost zero price as a desperate attempt to hold on to a sinking ship. Or one can hope that he/she can hold on to an income if he/she shrinks his/her life enough (in both free time and income) for the next 5 years or so. Personally I never thought it will last long, realistically, but I hoped for a longer warning. Though I have been warning as people here know, for more than 10 years, the cutoff curve of 2020-2021 was steep.
The 12 cents per word rate (the norm in the days of TMs 15 years ago) should have been more than 19 cents per word now (inflation-adjusted). Instead it'll go soon to 2 cents. This ProAct law will probably force us out of this misery, since we're not willing to do it ourselves.

Personally I stopped worrying a few days ago, when I realized that this job has no good future, at least not for US standards and cost of living. Apparently I had to go through the "5 stages of grief", since nobody wanted to take my 12-year old warnings seriously. There's an enormous amount of money printed by governments nowadays which goes to various developing industries and projects - the translation field is still based on sweat equity, but now it's very cheap too.

What are we trying to save, so passionately? A gold mine? Hardly...



Translators who specialize in a certain field (I call them boutique translators), are much less exposed to populist upheaval, even if they get their work through agencies. Personally, I am not concerned at all. In my niche, the requirements are so stringent that it would make it impossible for certain US government agencies to function without our help. Furthermore, although the work comes through LSPs, I cannot complain about the pay - it is more than decent.

Best of luck,
Lee


Esther Pugh
Christopher Schröder
Vi Pukite
Irene (Renata) Liapis
 
Abba Storgen (X)
Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 12:38
Greek to English
+ ...
For what money? Apr 20, 2021

Liviu-Lee Roth wrote:

Translators who specialize in a certain field (I call them boutique translators), are much less exposed...

Lee


I'm assuming you're talking about 6-figure income on the total, in the US, right? And I'm assuming you have a permanent contract or something similar? Otherwise there's no point in talking more about this. If we are talking here about half a young teacher's salary (meaning from 30-40K), I will have to run away in panic, and throw the computer out the window just in case.

I'm asking just in case, because a lot of people are boasting in these forums about golden jobs they have, but when a new job is posted asking for "your best rate" (meaning today around 3-4 cents), it's a stampede. And I have seen with my own eyes what rates they propose in the online platforms (have you ever seen "negotiating downwards"? I have).

The number of boutique translators with such unique settings as yours (assuming always a high income and not just occasional sums, right?), is so low (less than 1/200 I would guess), that it's like telling people "don't worry, just sell your old couch at the antiques roadshow and you'll make millions, I've seen others doing it".

Fun fact: A 23-year old friend of ours was hired in the "social media team" of a modestly known (yet stable for many years) company, starting salary 72K, plus fully paid health insurance (Obamacare Gold PPO), plus paid vacation, plus benefits and bonuses, plus promotional opportunities. Spends most of her time (of 8 hours per day) doing her makeup. And my local police station was trying to find someone to type (typist) hand-written police notes and records, permanent position 56K plus all the perks, large "police-level" pension, and an entire month paid vacation.

In this forum we are talking about MOST translators, not some lucky boutique 1% of cases.




[Edited at 2021-04-20 15:39 GMT]


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
OK, bye then! Apr 20, 2021

Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
Personally I stopped worrying a few days ago, when I realized that this job has no good future, at least not for US standards and cost of living.

And the best of luck in your new career!


Peter Shortall
 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 13:38
Romanian to English
+ ...
Your assumption is right- a telegraphic answer Apr 20, 2021

Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:

Liviu-Lee Roth wrote:

Translators who specialize in a certain field (I call them boutique translators), are much less exposed...

Lee


I'm assuming you're talking about 6-figure income on the total, in the US, right? And I'm assuming you have a permanent contract or something similar? Otherwise there's no point in talking more about this. If we are talking here about half a young teacher's salary (meaning from 30-40K), I will have to run away in panic, and throw the computer out the window just in case.

I'm asking just in case, because a lot of people are boasting in these forums about golden jobs they have, but when a new job is posted asking for "your best rate" (meaning today around 3-4 cents), it's a stampede. And I have seen with my own eyes what rates they propose in the online platforms (have you ever seen "negotiating downwards"? I have).

The number of boutique translators with such unique settings as yours (assuming always a high income and not just occasional sums, right?), is so low (less than 1/200 I would guess), that it's like telling people "don't worry, just sell your old couch at the antiques roadshow and you'll make millions, I've seen others doing it".

Fun fact: A 23-year old friend of ours was hired in the "social media team" of a modestly known (yet stable for many years) company, starting salary 72K, plus fully paid health insurance (Obamacare Gold PPO), plus paid vacation, plus benefits and bonuses, plus promotional opportunities. Spends most of her time (of 8 hours per day) doing her makeup. And my local police station was trying to find someone to type (typist) hand-written police notes and records, permanent position 56K plus all the perks, large "police-level" pension, and an entire month paid vacation.

In this forum we are talking about MOST translators, not some lucky boutique 1% of cases.




[Edited at 2021-04-20 15:39 GMT]


In the last several years my income was in the low 6 figures; it is not a permanent contract, just some of the the over 25 agencies I work with. Fortunately, I am also a federal court interpreter. I am ”retired” and for the last 5 years I have been looking for somebody to coach in this particular field. Unfortunately, most colleagues replied that it is too challenging. Never in my life bid for a job. On a daily basis I decline alt least two requests. I still believe that specializing is the answer.

Lee


Vi Pukite
Esther Pugh
Alice Crisan
 
Esther Pugh
Esther Pugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:38
Member (2014)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Topic Apr 20, 2021

Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:


In this forum we are talking about MOST translators, not some lucky boutique 1% of cases.




[Edited at 2021-04-20 15:39 GMT]


In this thread, we’re talking about legislation that could affect independent contractors in the translation industry.

There are plenty of threads that discuss rates and payment terms.


Irene (Renata) Liapis
 
Abba Storgen (X)
Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 12:38
Greek to English
+ ...
My final conclusion Apr 21, 2021

Esther Pugh wrote:
In this thread, we’re talking about legislation that could affect independent contractors in the translation industry.


If voted as is, it will make all translation freelancers unemployed. By the time they introduce any exemptions, your clients are already working with other people abroad. Quite a few US-based agencies started dumping US-based translators "just in case" after the AB5. Easier for their accounting departments too.

If the Law is modified like the AB 2257 (I mentioned it already in this thread), then it'll be ok.

The ProAct law does not provide exceptions for "specializations". It's just posturing to lecture younger translators today about what we were paid 20 years ago. Back then, even a few good dictionaries gave you a competitive edge. I remember a 2004 PO (large agency) for a 13,000 word legal project at 0.23/word. The same type project today would be 0.08 if you're lucky, most likely 0.03 MTPE.

But the ProAct Law does make a strong point, indirectly: For years we tolerated having to buy expensive proprietary software, zero participation in the success of our work product, our equipment & energy usage & all of our expenses benefited mostly the Agencies and their armies of useless "ISO-required" bureaucrats (which we feed), we had to be almost 24/7 available for questions and anonymous editors (without pay), working during vacation, project dispensing casino-like platforms, computer-generated schedules with which your body has to comply, etc. etc - we tolerated all that for a "very good paycheck". Now that the paycheck is on its way down fast, what are we trying to protect?

===============================================

PS. I warned about pricing, machine translation, etc etc many years ago, I was dismissed back then with the same style as today. In the Greek forums it took them 5-6 years to finally acknowledge "Lefteris was right". But I remained in the field because of a weird inertia and a few good years due to market and regulatory circumstances, even at half the price. But now, year 2021, I solidly believe "this is it".


 
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Anybody in the U.S. worried about the ProAct?







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