| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Indian translation agencies Thread poster: Michael Tovbin
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Michael Tovbin 
United States
Local time: 07:20
Member (2006)
Russian to English
+ ...
How come there are so many and how can they continue to exist given the low rates they offer?
I understand the cost of living in India is lower than in Europe, the US, and Canada but the professionals they use cannot all come from India. So, their overhead (any costs unrelated to paying language professionals) is low but the actual cost of doing the translations has to be the same as in countries with a higher cost of living where the language professionals come from.
O... See more How come there are so many and how can they continue to exist given the low rates they offer?
I understand the cost of living in India is lower than in Europe, the US, and Canada but the professionals they use cannot all come from India. So, their overhead (any costs unrelated to paying language professionals) is low but the actual cost of doing the translations has to be the same as in countries with a higher cost of living where the language professionals come from.
Or are there some of us in Europe, the US, or Canada willing and able to work for 2-3 cents a word?
[Edited at 2020-02-04 09:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Diana Kaplan
Germany
Local time: 14:20
English to German
+ ...
Hello Michael,
I´ve done a small job for an indian agency last year and they never paid me.
It was not worth the money to chase after them but maybe some of them do take into account that they will drop/delay payments esp. when the translator is sooo far away.
Sorry, just my 2 cents...
| | | | | there are some willing to work at those rates | Feb 4, 2020 |
"Or are there some of in Europe, the US, or Canada willing and able to work for 2-3 cents a word?"
I don't know about US or Canada, but in Italy there are many who work at those (ridiculous) rates. Unfortunately, for this pair the rates are not much higher, generally speaking, so I reckon Indian agencies count on that.
| | | | Woodstock (X)
Germany
Local time: 14:20
German to English
+ ...
| Don't forget geographical and cultural context | Feb 4, 2020 |
The fact that these agencies are located in the continent of Asia where there are a great many other countries and languages is often simply forgotten, because we are so used to viewing the world through our own respective cultural lenses. These also cater to languages, linguists and clients who are local or regionally close to them. Some Asian countries may seem economically disadvantaged when compared to the West, but are no less culturally rich with a stratum of highly educated, literate - a... See more The fact that these agencies are located in the continent of Asia where there are a great many other countries and languages is often simply forgotten, because we are so used to viewing the world through our own respective cultural lenses. These also cater to languages, linguists and clients who are local or regionally close to them. Some Asian countries may seem economically disadvantaged when compared to the West, but are no less culturally rich with a stratum of highly educated, literate - and presumably - multi-lingual - residents who are either non-nationals or nationals who have gone abroad for their education and may also be translators. One example is [The Kingdom of] Thailand, which is considered an emerging economy. Thailand has ca. 70 million residents and "sixty-two languages that were recognised by the Royal Thai Government in the 2011 Country Report to the UN Committee responsible for the International Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, which employed an ethnolinguistic approach and is available from the Department of Rights and Liberties Promotion of the Thai Ministry of Justice" (Wikipedia - https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Thailand). "In 2014 the literacy rate was 93.5%" (Wikipedia), and many Thais are also fluent in English because of the country's acceptance of European/British influence (it was never colonized by a Western power), but may not need as much money to live on as we in the West do, so the translators there may be fine with low rates. We tend to be very spoiled here in the West, and sometimes a bit arrogant because the countries we live in are wealthy and prosperous, so I try not to denigrate others for accepting low rates.
Granted, there are people calling themselves translators as well who work for pittances and are unprofessional, just as there are also reputable Indian agencies as well as less honest ones, just like in every other country on earth. Let's not put them all in one basket, and try to view the world from a broader perspective, not just our own cultural/personal one. No one is forcing us to work for rates we find unacceptable, and we shouldn't condemn others who do without considering that they may have a perfectly good reason for doing so. ▲ Collapse
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Michael Tovbin
United States
Local time: 07:20
Member (2006)
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I was not really looking for a lecture in cultural diversity but the point is well, if wordily, made. However, my question and my surprise are related to the fact that the agencies from India that I have ever dealt with seem to want to bend foreign providers to their local economic reality. They will contact you knowing that you live in the US and that your cost of living is multiples of theirs and expect you to agree to their terms.
Regarding command of the English language, "fluen... See more I was not really looking for a lecture in cultural diversity but the point is well, if wordily, made. However, my question and my surprise are related to the fact that the agencies from India that I have ever dealt with seem to want to bend foreign providers to their local economic reality. They will contact you knowing that you live in the US and that your cost of living is multiples of theirs and expect you to agree to their terms.
Regarding command of the English language, "fluent" is a very relative term. People in Thailand may be "fluent" enough for everyday purposes but a translator's fluency is a whole different matter. Also, I did not get the impression from the communications I received from Indian translation agencies that the people writing me were especially fluent in English. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:20
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| So many different markets | Feb 4, 2020 |
Michael Tovbin wrote:
the professionals they use cannot all come from India.
Or are there some of us in Europe, the US, or Canada willing and able to work for 2-3 cents a word?
Well, quality comes into the equation too. It seems that the quality required for some assembly/fitting instructions and English menus abroad is very low indeed. Sometimes, the company just puts the text through Google Translate, but at other times they'll have paid a small amount to a translation agency, who will have paid a translator an even smaller amount to run it through GT and then tidy it a little. And in some cases, the text will have been translated more or less competently for that small amount of money.
The translator:
- could be living in a country where incomes are traditionally low for many people, and that doesn't just mean India and the Far East, it includes areas of Europe and South America too
- could actually be earning a reasonable per-hour rate of pay because they've developed ways and means to work very rapidly indeed -- keeping up a 4-figure per hour word rate for hour after hour -- while maintaining at least a so-so level of quality
- could be a "hobby" translator (rather than a professional relying solely on translation for their living), such as a retiree, a student, a bored full-time carer, or someone using their "can English" knowledge at the weekends to supplement their poorly paid full-time job
- could be a newbie who thought it would be "better than nothing" and will either very quickly learn to expect better or will eventually decide that "nothing" is preferable to spending your life being totally stressed out for a pittance. I think very many newbies start out that way nowadays. Hopefully, they'll get out of that downward spiral sooner thanks to reading these threads.
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Michael Tovbin wrote:
Or are there some of us in Europe, the US, or Canada willing and able to work for 2-3 cents a word?
of course there are... they work at very low rates, but they work a lot... not a business model to recommend, but a business model nevertheless... 
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 08:20
Russian to English
+ ...
| You are asking a wrong question | Feb 4, 2020 |
What you should be asking is this:
1) Are these folks, wherever they are from, prepared to pay the rate I charge AND do I have any reasonable, workable recourse if they don't pay?
If the answer is NO, then:
2) Why should I even care if they are there or how they manage to survive? They are not my clients. They are not my market. Period. And never mind how rich their culture or spirituality is. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Cheers... See more What you should be asking is this:
1) Are these folks, wherever they are from, prepared to pay the rate I charge AND do I have any reasonable, workable recourse if they don't pay?
If the answer is NO, then:
2) Why should I even care if they are there or how they manage to survive? They are not my clients. They are not my market. Period. And never mind how rich their culture or spirituality is. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Cheers, Michael. ▲ Collapse
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| Quality -or- Quantity | Feb 4, 2020 |
It's fine that some students, uneducated, unemployed, hobbyists, and wannabe translator with a PC and the internet want to get some pocketmoney, churning out thousand words in PEMT cheap.
Some of them learn to plan, negotiate, price, and improve, others don't care [for now].
On the other hand, I can't help smiling when another "businessperson" joyfully twits his success story about $0.10+/word, whereas repetition grid 'discounts' often make it well under $0.02/w flat. M... See more It's fine that some students, uneducated, unemployed, hobbyists, and wannabe translator with a PC and the internet want to get some pocketmoney, churning out thousand words in PEMT cheap.
Some of them learn to plan, negotiate, price, and improve, others don't care [for now].
On the other hand, I can't help smiling when another "businessperson" joyfully twits his success story about $0.10+/word, whereas repetition grid 'discounts' often make it well under $0.02/w flat. Math rulez!
If you know your absolute bottom and your worth, then you will not accept penny offers. Yet the needy could...
The Misha is right: just let them try the life themselves--according to their merits. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Woodstock (X)
Germany
Local time: 14:20
German to English
+ ...
Michael Tovbin wrote:
... the agencies from India that I have ever dealt with seem to want to bend foreign providers to their local economic reality. They will contact you knowing that you live in the US and that your cost of living is multiples of theirs and expect you to agree to their terms.
It's doubtful they are targeting you, specifically, but are sending emails to anyone in the Proz directory that matches their specifications, i.e. mass emails. They must have some kind of success rate if they do it repeatedly: "As of 20 October 2018, ProZ.com reports more than 960,000 registered users, spanning more than 200 countries and territories worldwide." (Wikipedia)
Also, I did not get the impression from the communications I received from Indian translation agencies that the people writing me were especially fluent in English.
Well, I would think that they solicit registered Proz translators for the same reason every other agency does: They don't have the resources on hand to fulfill their clients' needs, so they recruit additional translators registered at Proz who can be based anywhere in the world. I have gotten emails from various countries written in dubious English - that's normal to me. It doesn't make me think less of them. If the rate paid and BB entries are fine, I'll work with them. If not, I won't - it's that simple.
| | | | | 3rd-world translators | Feb 4, 2020 |
Many Prozians located in so-called 1st-world countries think like this:
- A translator from a 1st-world country = a good to excellent translator
- A translator from a 3rd-world country = a shabby translator
This only shows that the white man's burden is still alive and kicking!
[Edited at 2020-02-04 19:42 GMT]
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 05:20
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
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[Edited at 2020-02-04 21:25 GMT]
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Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 20:20
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Of course there are | Feb 5, 2020 |
Michael Tovbin wrote:
How come there are so many and how can they continue to exist given the low rates they offer?
I understand the cost of living in India is lower than in Europe, the US, and Canada but the professionals they use cannot all come from India. So, their overhead (any costs unrelated to paying language professionals) is low but the actual cost of doing the translations has to be the same as in countries with a higher cost of living where the language professionals come from.
Or are there some of us in Europe, the US, or Canada willing and able to work for 2-3 cents a word?
[Edited at 2020-02-04 09:33 GMT]
Because let's face it: not everyone who wants to be a translator comes from a strong economic position. Depending on your standing in life, $15 USD an hour may seem like a pretty decent job, not to mention the job has some major advantages over, say, flipping burgers in terms of freedom and time efficiency. Such a person may not have the gumption or the opportunity to seek greener pastures.
I never worked for 0.03, but there were times in my life where I would have gladly taken it and done a pretty good job. And you know what? It might have made me better off now, except I didn't have the opportunity to do so when I was in school.
[Edited at 2020-02-05 06:45 GMT]
| | | | Michael Tovbin
United States
Local time: 07:20
Member (2006)
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Wilsonn Perez Reyes wrote:
Many Prozians located in so-called 1st-world countries think like this:
- A translator from a 1st-world country = a good to excellent translator
- A translator from a 3rd-world country = a shabby translator
This only shows that the white man's burden is still alive and kicking!
[Edited at 2020-02-04 19:42 GMT]
How does your reply have anything to do with my post?
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 08:20
Japanese to English
+ ...
| Indian translation agencies | Feb 5, 2020 |
Wilsonn Perez Reyes wrote:
Many Prozians located in so-called 1st-world countries think like this:
- A translator from a 1st-world country = a good to excellent translator
- A translator from a 3rd-world country = a shabby translator
This only shows that the white man's burden is still alive and kicking!
[Edited at 2020-02-04 19:42 GMT]
Of course, all translators working in "first world countries" (e.g. US, UK, Japan, Germany) are white.
Obviously you've never traveled to a "first world country".
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