| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5] > | 如何面对后俄乌冲突时代的全球技术翻译市场 Thread poster: Renquan Yang
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现在看后俄乌冲突时代即将到来。因俄乌冲突所致各国间经济制裁已经满天飞舞，在这种大背景下，国际翻译市场已经波及。非中文论坛里已经有俄语译员因制裁而提到不再能够使用某些辅助翻译软件，以俄语为中心的项目大幅度缩减，波及俄语译员和非俄语译员。中国未来会不会被波及？不好说。未雨绸缪吧。
在未来动荡不安的时代里，freelancers如何在技术性文本的翻译市场作出合理选择，对每个参与市场的从业者都是个问题。
答案在哪里？大概每个人都要摸索，这里先提出问题，来日再补充看法。
| | | | Charles Peng 
China
Local time: 18:55
Member (2022)
English to Chinese
Renquan Yang wrote:
现在看后俄乌冲突时代即将到来。因俄乌冲突所致各国间经济制裁已经满天飞舞，在这种大背景下，国际翻译市场已经波及。非中文论坛里已经有俄语译员因制裁而提到不再能够使用某些辅助翻译软件，以俄语为中心的项目大幅度缩减，波及俄语译员和非俄语译员。中国未来会不会被波及？不好说。未雨绸缪吧。
在未来动荡不安的时代里，freelancers如何在技术性文本的翻译市场作出合理选择，对每个参与市场的从业者都是个问题。
答案在哪里？大概每个人都要摸索，这里先提出问题，来日再补充看法。
中文相关的翻译市场，在我看来面临几个方向的威胁：
1）人工智能翻译技术迅速进步：拉长时间来看，当前应是AI/计算机技术取得突破的前夜，不确定我这代人（80后）会不会看到，一旦发生肯定会在一夜之间彻底颠覆这行业；
2）地缘政治风险：“中国未来会不会被波及”这种其实都算轻微的问题，假设高层决定解决台湾问题，那中国面临的制裁力度肯定是空前的；
3）市场环境劣化：内卷嘛，大家都懂得。
我个人能想到的并且在实施的解决方案
1）纵向发展：跳脱出专注于翻译工作本身的模式，提升全流程语言服务的能力；
2）横向发展：真的要抽空问下自己，万一有朝一日做不成翻译工作，自己还能做什么；
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Renquan Yang
China
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
邮箱里notification
“Please refrain from discussing politically-sensitive topics in this forum”
嗯，Facebook风。
开这个帖子之前就想到会有这些坑，于是俺老老实实绕开坑，当乖乖兔。
然而，“南美蝴蝶翅膀扇风”效应也必然适用国际翻译市场，谁也避不开，躲不开，包括网站经营者本身也是如此。如果全球freelancer都over了，谁来支付这个网站的运营费用呢？哦，对了，Facebook... See more 邮箱里notification
“Please refrain from discussing politically-sensitive topics in this forum”
嗯，Facebook风。
开这个帖子之前就想到会有这些坑，于是俺老老实实绕开坑，当乖乖兔。
然而，“南美蝴蝶翅膀扇风”效应也必然适用国际翻译市场，谁也避不开，躲不开，包括网站经营者本身也是如此。如果全球freelancer都over了，谁来支付这个网站的运营费用呢？哦，对了，Facebook起家的模式可能适用？
“政”在中文里通假“正”字，什么是“正”，懂中文的自然懂。谁又能避开如何选择道路的问题呢？走正道大概是多数人的选择。何为“正”，那就仁者见仁，智者见智了，这就避不开讨论。
Freelancer在国际翻译市场不得不总是面临道路选择问题，往哪个语言方向投入精力和时间，这关系到自己的能否吃饭、吃什么饭的问题，所以不得不察。
Polictical在印欧语系里又是什么含义呢？查了这个单词的etymology，追溯到古希腊语，意思是“of citizens, pertaining to the state and its administration; pertaining to public life”。
既然现在局势已经影响到全球public life，那么靠全球服务市场吃饭的各位freelancer怎么可能不关心这个public event呢？头埋在沙子里，显然不解决问题，只能睁大眼睛找出适合自己的路。
[Edited at 2022-03-28 23:01 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-03-28 23:32 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-03-28 23:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Renquan Yang
China
Member (2007)
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TOPIC STARTER | @Charles Peng | Mar 28, 2022 |
拥抱技术进步，甚至驾驭新技术，而不是抗拒技术进步。抗拒历时进步的结局，参照火车发明后货运马车业的结局。
挖掘新的领域，例如学习多语种、开拓自己有基础的新领域、扮演新的LSP角色如Project Manager、高级审校者、配音员等等。
在我看来，国际翻译市场只会越来越大，因为只要各种民族语言没有到自然消亡的那个阶段，就存在操不同语言的人群（泛指概念，包括国家、国家集团等等）之间交流的现实问题。全球经济生活的规模越来越大，交流越来越频繁深入，那么对语言转换服务的需求就始终存在且日益增长。
就个人而言，主要的问题是能力不足，而不是市场萎缩。
| | | | ysun
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Local time: 05:55
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Renquan Yang wrote:
一大早就看到邮箱里的notification
Renquan,
这句话是坛友基于论坛规则的善意提醒，完全没错，而且依我的理解，并非是针对你的发言。所以，大家都不必在意。
| | | | Jianrong Sun
China
Local time: 18:55
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| @Charles Peng | Mar 29, 2022 |
@Charles Peng
你在几个方向的威胁及实施的解决方案中提及的问题（两个第二条）非常有见地。这两个问题我还真没仔细想过，也想听听大家的意见。
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Charles Peng
China
Local time: 18:55
Member (2022)
English to Chinese
Jianrong Sun wrote:
@Charles Peng
你在几个方向的威胁及实施的解决方案中提及的问题（两个第二条）非常有见地。这两个问题我还真没仔细想过，也想听听大家的意见。
惭愧！我的粗浅看法权当是抛砖引玉，还请各位前辈们得空时多多发表高见。
| | | | ysun
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| Post-war opportunities for translators and interpreters | May 16, 2022 |
Charles Peng wrote:
中文相关的翻译市场，在我看来面临几个方向的威胁：
1）人工智能翻译技术迅速进步：拉长时间来看，当前应是AI/计算机技术取得突破的前夜，不确定我这代人（80后）会不会看到，一旦发生肯定会在一夜之间彻底颠覆这行业；
2）地缘政治风险：“中国未来会不会被波及”这种其实都算轻微的问题，假设高层决定解决台湾问题，那中国面临的制裁力度肯定是空前的；
I can understand your worries, but I don't think the risks as you mentioned are imminent. The paramount leader of China announced "a partnership without an up-limit" when he met his partner during the Beijing Winter Olympics. However, it looks like he has kept a certain "social distance" from this partner so far. I believe horrible infections would make him think twice before he takes any actions. On the other hand, as I know, only leaders and some VIPs would be severely infected. You guys don't need to worry too much.
Actually, I think translators/interpreters around the world would have much more work to do, particularly those who can speak Russian, Ukrainian and other major languages in Europe. For example, after WWII ended, a lot of translators and interpreters were needed to participate in war-crime investigations and to work inside and outside the court room of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (Tokyo Tribunal, in addition to the Nuremberg Tribunal).
The International Military Tribunal spent fifteen months reaching judgment and drafting its 1,781-page opinion. The reading of the judgment and the sentences lasted from December 4 to 12, 1948, although it only took 36 minutes or so to hang the seven Class-A war criminals to death in two batches, including Tōjō Hideki （东条英机）, the General of the Imperial Japanese Army and Prime Minister of the Empire of Japan. Just imagine how much time it would take for translators around the world to translate the 1,781-page report and the judgment into so many different languages, not to mention other jobs that would need a lot of translators and interpreters to do.
Tōjō Hideki was sentenced to death on November 12, 1948, and executed by hanging on December 23, 1948, just a week before his 64th birthday.
The Chinese people should also take part in restoring and rebuilding of the country, where China acquired her first aircraft carrier in history. 滴水之恩，当涌泉相报！
| | | | ysun
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| Language professionals一translators and interpreters一were the unspoken heroes of the Nuremberg Tr | May 16, 2022 |
Translating and Interpreting the Nuremberg Trials
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/translating-and-interpreting-nuremberg-trials
Interpreters Booth courtesy of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.
Without interpreters and translators, the Nuremberg Trial as we know it would have been impossible. The Allied nations agreed in August 1945 that the trials to prosecute Nazi war crimes should be carried out fairly and expeditiously. In order to do so, the trial needed to be conducted simultaneously in English, Russian, German, and French for the American, British, Russian, and French judges and prosecutors and also for the German defendants and their defense counsel. Language professionals一translators and interpreters一were the unspoken heroes of the Nuremberg Trials.
Translators and interpreters played a critical role in the mechanics of the trials beginning with the main trial, which was conducted over a 10 month period from November 20,1945 to October 1, 1946. The proceedings took place in 210 trial days. There was so much material presented during the trial that the trial’s published transcripts fill 42 volumes. It is sometimes referred to as “the trial of six million words.” The trial was arguably the most important trial of the twentieth century, during which the four Allied powers tried Nazi leaders for crimes they committed during the war including murder, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against civilian populations, which would be termed “crimes against humanity.” Out of the 24 accused men, 22 stood trial.
......
The first school for interpreters, based in Geneva, Switzerland, did not open until 1941. But some innovation had been brewing for more than a decade in the business community. In the 1920s, an idea was patented by Filene-Findlay (a businessman and an engineer) and brought to IBM. They manufactured the “IBM Hushaphone Filene-Findlay System” or the “International Translator System,” which was used at the International Labor Conference in Geneva in 1927. This was the system that brought the words of the Nuremberg Trial to life. Although the system was not new, the way in which it was employed was very innovative.
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While the staff was being assembled, the courtroom in Nuremberg was being reconstructed after suffering heavy damage during the war. Once the language personnel were hired, there was initially no way to train them on site using the interpretation equipment. The equipment itself was tough to round up. IBM agreed to supply the equipment free of charge: the system itself, along with 200 headphones and cables (after the trials they were able to sell a proven system to the United Nations in New York). IBM also sent technicians who worked with Signal Corps technicians to install the system. Just three weeks before the trial began, the equipment arrived in six crates in an Army cargo plane.
Please also read: The Nuremberg Trial and its Legacy
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/the-nuremberg-trial-and-its-legacy
| | | | ysun
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| Interpretation at the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal | May 16, 2022 |
First set of Japanese Class A War Criminals standing at attention before the trial.
Interpretation at the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal: An Overview and Tojo’s Cross-Examination
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Interpretation-at-the-Tokyo-War-Crimes-Tribunal:-An-Watanabe/adcf55de58720936db0361521fb6695da0077f22
The Tokyo and the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunals were two major international military tribunals organized immediately after World War II. Interpretation at the Nuremberg Trial has been described in a number of papers and books and is considered the origin of simultaneous interpretation. However, with regards to the Tokyo Trial, only the inadequate quality of interpretation has been mentioned in history books and political science publications, and this on very few occasions. This paper begins by offering an overview of the interpretation at the Tokyo Trial through interviews and the records of the proceedings and then analyzes a particular instance of interpretation, namely the cross-examination of Hideki Tojo, who was tried for his significant role in WWII as Minister of War and Prime Minister, and who was finally sentenced to death by the court. The Tokyo Trial was the first instance of an IBM Public Address System (simultaneous interpreting equipment) being installed with an interpreter’s booth in Japan. However, we must recall that it was actually consecutive interpretation that was provided through the use of the IBM system and the booth. Therefore the Tokyo Trial is the origin of the use of simultaneous interpretation equipment, but not the origin of simultaneous interpretation skills in Japan.
https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh/梅汝璈
“民族脊梁”梅汝璈：东京审判将7名战犯判处死刑，晚年受辱而死：
https://new.qq.com/omn/20200820/20200820A0OHGY00.html
https://k.sina.cn/article_7423250578_1ba75d092001010p9u.html?from=history
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ysun
United States
Local time: 05:55
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| “Ногу Свело! - Назад, Россия!” What does it mean？ | May 17, 2022 |
Renquan Yang wrote:
现在看后俄乌冲突时代即将到来。因俄乌冲突所致各国间经济制裁已经满天飞舞，在这种大背景下，国际翻译市场已经波及。非中文论坛里已经有俄语译员因制裁而提到不再能够使用某些辅助翻译软件，以俄语为中心的项目大幅度缩减，波及俄语译员和非俄语译员。中国未来会不会被波及？不好说。未雨绸缪吧。
我也去俄语和乌克兰语论坛瞄了两眼。有位身在英国的俄语翻译说，她似乎不能用 Multitran 了，但后来又说能用了。一位身在美国的俄语翻译也说能用。我觉得，身在俄罗斯的翻译无法用 Multitran，倒是完全可能的；但那也是俄罗斯“互联网守门人”作的孽。论坛上也有人说，目前在俄罗斯上不了 Proz.com。这也完全可能。估计也是因为那“守门人”决心不让“码字先生”上 Proz.com。“守门人”坑那些辛辛苦苦、闭门造车的“码字先生”，真是太缺德了！将来即使你们在中国大陆也上不了 Proz.com，那也不是 Proz.com 的问题，而是“守门人”作的孽！
Multitran 是一种网上词典。我上 https://www.multitran.com/ 看了看，在其首页看到了一段有趣的视频：
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EhcakGH7po
视频开头是足球比赛，后来变成了莫斯科红场阅兵。不过，阅兵时的军队、车辆、坦克和飞机等都是倒走、倒行、倒飞的，就像是有人在往后倒录像带似的。
视频的标题是“Ногу Свело! - Назад, Россия!”，这是俄语。究竟是什么意思呢？我在高中和大学里曾学过一点俄语，因为没多少机会用，就差不多都还给老师了。“Ногу Свело” 的原意为“腿抽筋了”（“Cramp in the Legs!”），其实这是莫斯科一支摇滚乐队的名称。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nogu_Svelo!
估计是有人借用该摇滚乐队的名义制作视频。不过，视频中打鼓的那位的确是该乐队的成员。那视频明显是出于某种目的（光明正大的目的）巧妙地编辑、拼接起来的。“Ногу Свело! - Назад, Россия!” 这句话的意思就是：“腿抽筋了！- 往后撤吧，俄罗斯！”  所以，视频中的军队、车辆、坦克和飞机等都是往后倒退的。依我看，不止是腿抽筋了，而且是腿折了！
在 Proz.com 的俄语和乌克兰语论坛上也有人提到，欧洲许多国家因接待大量乌克兰难民，故对于懂乌克兰语、俄语的翻译或志愿者的需要急增。事实上，有很多乌克兰人也懂俄语，也有很多俄罗斯人懂乌克兰语，本是同根生嘛！
这次难民们的遭遇，与以往的战乱时期大不相同。难民们一到波兰，住的不是难民营，也不是方舱，而是由各国老百姓把这些素不相识的难民像自己亲人一样接到家中居住。
烏克蘭俄羅斯局勢：難民潮下烏克蘭車站陷入混亂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQILd3em3ow
这是一位俄罗斯志愿者在巴黎火车东站帮助乌克兰难民：
Russian volunteers help welcome Ukrainian refugees at Paris's Gare de l'Est
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220423-russian-volunteers-help-welcome-ukrainian-refugees-at-paris-s-gare-de-l-est
志愿者在柏林中央火车站欢迎乌克兰难民
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR32bf5ct0I
有人表示，愿意无限期收容两位成年人和三个小孩，直到他们找到新住处（我想是指由政府最终安排的长期性住处）。这与某些人所谓的“合作无上限”成为鲜明对比！有位德国姑娘家里空间并不大，但她还是尽力收容了两位难民。还有视频显示，志愿者广播说，现在刚出站的是一家4口人，谁能接收？马上就有人举牌表示愿意。周围的其他人就鼓掌称赞。那种场面十分温馨感人！还有许多国家的志愿者和老百姓，直接到波兰迎接难民。这就是患难见真情！真是太可贵了！
大批德國人在車站迎接烏克蘭難民 舉牌告知願意收容
https://www.upmedia.mg/news_info.php?Type=3&SerialNo=139105
如果谁不相信 VOA 和 BBC，不妨看看腾讯发表的这篇文章：《德国华人当志愿者迎接乌克兰难民：语言不通靠比划，回家后忍不住大哭》
https://new.qq.com/rain/a/20220322A08AA000
不管怎样，First things first，咱们先把难民安置妥当了。至于在哪里审判哪国战犯，等战争结束以后再说吧！根据二战后在纽伦堡和东京审判那些纳粹和法西斯战犯的经验，不管在哪里审判，不管是审判哪国战犯，在战争罪行调查期间和审判期间，翻译肯定都是不可或缺的！
Glory to translators, interpreters and volunteers!
[Edited at 2022-05-17 21:22 GMT]
| | | | ysun
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各位的这些担忧是完全可以理解的。但我认为，国内自由译者首先要担心的不是将来能不能用 Google Translate 以及其它翻译软件，也不是能不能上 Proz.com，除非国内的“互联网守门人”不让用、不让上。我觉得，俄罗斯被踢出 SWIFT “朋友圈”之后，许多身在俄罗斯的翻译就没法收取国外翻译社的汇款。这才是迫在眉睫、性命攸关的危险！
有专家把“踢出 SWIFT 朋友圈”�... See more 各位的这些担忧是完全可以理解的。但我认为，国内自由译者首先要担心的不是将来能不能用 Google Translate 以及其它翻译软件，也不是能不能上 Proz.com，除非国内的“互联网守门人”不让用、不让上。我觉得，俄罗斯被踢出 SWIFT “朋友圈”之后，许多身在俄罗斯的翻译就没法收取国外翻译社的汇款。这才是迫在眉睫、性命攸关的危险！
有专家把“踢出 SWIFT 朋友圈”的制裁比喻为金融核弹。但《环球时报》连发几文，说这没什么了不起，宣称“俄罗斯自主研发的SPFS系统与中国建立的CIPS系统都可以替代SWIFT系统”。这话在我听起来就相当于“若用不着霍尼韦尔公司产的口罩，可以用国产口罩来替代飞机上的霍尼韦尔黑匣子”。这话听起来是不是十分别扭、十分荒唐？《环球时报》的意思其实很明确，就是中国也绝不怕被踢出SWIFT “朋友圈”。尽管胡叼盘已经“被退休”了，但他的“阳魂”依然没散。俄乌冲突以来，《环球时报》的报道几乎都是从俄国的“今日俄罗斯”和“俄罗斯卫星通讯网”的报道直接翻译过来的。前苏联的众多“卫星国”早就纷纷加入了欧盟和北约，难道胡叼盘还想当新卫星、想当国际叼盘吗？最近三个月来，他们所制造的最大谎言就是，“北极熊”被打死之后，悲惨的命运就将轮到“熊猫”了，以此煽动“义和团”。他们并非爱国，而是“碍国”！熊猫不会有危险，只有“战狼”才会有危险！
中美在夏威夷会谈时，当王外长在旅馆走廊里遇见那位老布什总统在任时与老布什亲如一家、被老布什昵称为”老虎“的人时，问他，“吃了吗？”他答道，“吃了。我吃的泡面。”结果，一帮脑残小粉红听说后就狂喊，“对！不吃美国那一套！就吃泡面，要‘五桶’！”如果真的按照这帮人的馊主意去干，真会使中国陷于万劫不复之地！
So, it is very important to keep a safe social distance!
被踢出SWIFT，俄罗斯经济会迎来毁灭性打击吗？
https://www.chinanews.com.cn/cj/2022/02-27/9687372.shtml
让我们来听听金融专家、招联金融首席研究员董希淼是如何说的吧：
此前，美国也曾将SWIFT系统作为制裁工具，制裁了伊朗、朝鲜等国家，将两国排除在SWIFT结算系统之外，给两国经济带来了较大影响。
董希淼认为，其实俄罗斯政府早就将如何替代SWIFT系统作为一种假设进行研究和应对，比如说采取一些替代方案，包括建设俄罗斯央行自己的金融信息传输系统。但是到目前为止，俄罗斯央行金融信息传输系统只有8家外国银行参与，发挥的作用十分有限。所以，这一次俄罗斯主要金融机构被排除在SWIFT系统之外，将给俄罗斯经济带来比较大的影响，而且这种影响还将持续比较长的一段时间。 ▲ Collapse
| | | | Renquan Yang
China
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English to Chinese
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Ysun
连发好几帖，感谢捧场哈。这几个帖文是原创吗？
感觉这帖子立意颇为宏大，然我等小人物管不了这么大的事儿。不过有点看法与帖文中的观点相左。
“熊猫”现在有没有危险？——认真阅读世界历史过去四百年和当下世界现实的人们都看得出来，当然绝大多数人是不看历史，只听媒体的。这一点上，我相信国内高层掌握详细情况，会作出符合历史趋势的抉�... See more Ysun
连发好几帖，感谢捧场哈。这几个帖文是原创吗？
感觉这帖子立意颇为宏大，然我等小人物管不了这么大的事儿。不过有点看法与帖文中的观点相左。
“熊猫”现在有没有危险？——认真阅读世界历史过去四百年和当下世界现实的人们都看得出来，当然绝大多数人是不看历史，只听媒体的。这一点上，我相信国内高层掌握详细情况，会作出符合历史趋势的抉择。总不能等人家把绳子最后勒紧一圈了，“家”都没了，自己才恍然大悟吧。当然，幸好掌舵人看得清，早早提出一带一路的思路且不断施行当中。
一个人若在生活中被人欺负，即便势力不济，也不至于笑脸相迎对手吧，总得有所表示。个人如此，国家自然也如此，所以熊猫不得不造个把风力发电场、弄点原木车之类的事儿。这得感谢党一代领导曾和钱学森邓稼先于敏们+无数为这个国家撑伞的工人、农民、战士、各级干部等。毛说的没错，那个啥里出政权。在全球殖民思想与行为与十八十九世纪无二的当今世界，一个国家作为集团要存在，只能手里有家伙，才不会成为殖民者眼中和手下的鱼肉。
从这个角度看，正如老普说，这世界上主权真正独立的国家就三个半。
看看米国上层现在的说法和做法，让我想起《圣经•旧约•出埃及记》出自上帝的晓谕：以牙还牙，以眼还眼。所以嘛，熊猫有点反应不很正常吗？反正我做不到人家打你左脸，你还把右脸递过去给人打。
Swift系统今后会对中国隔绝吗？这事儿发生地概率看起来蛮高高，尤其五年到十年内，就看米国咋想了，这是中国无法决定的局面。毕竟这台子是人家搭的，现在人家不让玩了，那咋办，那也只能另辟蹊径了。如果这事儿要发生，那谁都只能面对这个现实。天要下雨，娘要嫁人，就让他去吧。另外，兵来将挡，水来土掩嘛。世上本无路，走的人多了，便有了路。
我现在琢磨，得学点儿什么Vietnamese、印尼语、Targalog、Thai之类的东盟诸国语，今后没准在没饭吃的时候有地方找饭吃：）。此曰顺势而为，非逆势而动。
另外，建议不再发这类政治正确的帖子，免得招版主烦给封了。
[Edited at 2022-05-19 03:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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