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簡單而又常被譯得不明不白的單詞 Thread poster: jyuan_us
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 06:55
Chinese to English
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I agree with what jyuan is basically saying.
Often times there are certain words in English that are there because that's the way the language is spoken. There is no need to translate everything word-for-word. Chinese has a different way of expressing the same idea without using some of these words.
A very simple example:
Please help yourself
请吃啊
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ysun
United States
Local time: 06:55
English to Chinese
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Libin PhD wrote:
看来是不止，光是我们一起做的200多个专利加校对的工作量可能就有1万多页了。我只是估计一下，没有认真统计。
我觉得你的这个估计比较靠谱。那200多个专利每篇少则几十页，多则三百多页、十万余字。按保守估计，平均每篇也得有50页。有时我觉得我们似乎不是在翻译专利，而是在译书。不过，我也没有做过精确统计，哪有那闲功夫？
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ysun
United States
Local time: 06:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
wherestip wrote:
Often times there are certain words in English that are there because that's the way the language is spoken. There is no need to translate everything word-for-word. Chinese has a different way of expressing the same idea without using some of these words.
A very simple example:
Please help yourself
请吃啊
Taking the word "allow" as an example, in some contexts it means "to make possible", e.g.: This plan allows 20 minutes for dinner (依照此计划，有20分钟时间可以吃晚饭). (from 《朗文双解词典》)
I also agree with what you said in your previous post about translation of "allow".
Another example of "allow": The reaction mixture is allowed to cool down to room temperature.
通常我译为“任反应混合物冷却至室温”，也就是说，不去管它，任其自然冷却。
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 07:55
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
wherestip wrote:
I agree with what jyuan is basically saying.
Often times there are certain words in English that are there because that's the way the language is spoken. There is no need to translate everything word-for-word. Chinese has a different way of expressing the same idea without using some of these words.
A very simple example:
Please help yourself
请吃啊
請自便！
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ysun
United States
Local time: 06:55
English to Chinese
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wherestip wrote:
Often times there are certain words in English that are there because that's the way the language is spoken. There is no need to translate everything word-for-word. Chinese has a different way of expressing the same idea without using some of these words.
另一例子是 I couldn't help laughing.
[Edited at 2011-09-17 00:35 GMT]
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pkchan wrote: wherestip wrote:
I agree with what jyuan is basically saying.
Often times there are certain words in English that are there because that's the way the language is spoken. There is no need to translate everything word-for-word. Chinese has a different way of expressing the same idea without using some of these words.
A very simple example:
Please help yourself
请吃啊 請自便！
也可以直接说，请吧，如果需要正式一点，还可以说，请用。
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kenny2006woo (X)
Local time: 19:55
English to Chinese
| please help yourself | Sep 17, 2011 |
Libin PhD wrote: pkchan wrote: wherestip wrote:
I agree with what jyuan is basically saying.
Often times there are certain words in English that are there because that's the way the language is spoken. There is no need to translate everything word-for-word. Chinese has a different way of expressing the same idea without using some of these words.
A very simple example:
Please help yourself
请吃啊 請自便！ 也可以直接说，请吧，如果需要正式一点，还可以说，请用。
Please help yourself, Your Majesty.
万岁爷，您请用膳。
[Edited at 2011-09-17 00:14 GMT]
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 07:55
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:55
Chinese to English
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ysun wrote:
另一例子是 I couldn't help laughing.
That's a very good example too.
A few more along the same line:
They couldn't help but stare
I couldn't help but wonder
I cannot help but notice
... and not along the same line:
The thief helped himself to our family silver
She's been helping herself to money out of the petty cash account
There's no help for him
他不可救药了
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:55
Chinese to English
+ ...
kenny2006woo wrote: Please help yourself, Your Majesty. 万岁爷，您请用膳。
kenny,
I know that you're just kidding. 
Kidding aside though, it depends on the situation. For example, in "Beauty and the Beast", this is the way Lumiere, the candlestick, announces to Belle that her dinner is ready:
"Ma chere Mademoiselle, it is with deepest pride and greatest pleasure that we welcome you tonight. And now we invite you to relax. Let us pull up a chair, as the dining room proudly presents - your dinner!"
So perhaps a better way of saying this would be: "(Your) dinner is served, Majesty".
At a restaurant, the waiter would typically say "Enjoy your meal", "Bon appetit", or something similar after bringing the food to the table. Whereas the host of the dinner party could simply say "Shall we?" or make a short toast to get the meal started. Religious folks usually say grace before each meal; so the end of the prayer is their cue. Anyway, in English, there are also a few common variations that invariably come as natural as "吃啊" at a Chinese dinner table.
In an informal setting - like a backyard barbecue with a bunch of good friends - one could just say, "Let's eat", or "Let's dig in!"... 
http://www.americanidioms.net/dig-in/
[Edited at 2011-09-18 04:06 GMT]
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ysun
United States
Local time: 06:55
English to Chinese
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| Help oneself to something | Sep 17, 2011 |
wherestip wrote:
The thief helped himself to our family silver
这也是一个很好的例子。这里，helped himself 就是“偷”的婉转说法。大概这种说法是为了给小偷留面子。 Help oneself to something 的基本意思就是“自行取用”without asking permission。所取用的东西可以是食物，也可以是其它物品，例如旅馆大厅里通常都会陈列的介绍当地名胜古迹的免费小册子。所以，这个词组究竟如何译，要视上下文而定。
Kenny 显然是在开玩笑，但我认为，将 Please help yourself 用在万岁爷或高官们用膳的场合似乎不大合适，因为他们用膳根本谈不上 asking permission，而且在他们用膳时，侍者必须站在旁边捧着茅台酒诚惶诚恐地侍候着（爱吃炸酱面的除外）。
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/help_1
3 help yourself (to something)
a) to take some of what you want, without asking permission - used especially when offering food to someone:
Please help yourself to some cake.
b) informal to steal something:
Obviously he had been helping himself to the money.
[Edited at 2011-09-17 22:07 GMT]
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kenny2006woo (X)
Local time: 19:55
English to Chinese
呵呵，我是在开玩笑，不过没想到功力不到家，笑话也没说好。按词典的解释，在万岁爷的身上用help yourself to the meal确实不大适合。多谢二位前辈赐教。
咦，那个绿头小子怎么打不出来呢？龇牙的那个。
[Edited at 2011-09-17 23:30 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-09-17 23:31 GMT]
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nigerose
China
Local time: 19:55
Chinese to English
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简单的单词为何常被译得不明不白，根本的原因在于译者不注意到所谓的简单的单词，也就是常用词，往往具有很多词义，不少词义可能是他少接触或未掌握的。在翻译时只想当然地用上自己学过的、知道的词义，又不根据上下文想想是否正确，就容易出错。
以上allow、help等例子中， 如果查查金山词霸等词典，可以发现有以下释义：
allow
使得以发生
This m... See more 简单的单词为何常被译得不明不白，根本的原因在于译者不注意到所谓的简单的单词，也就是常用词，往往具有很多词义，不少词义可能是他少接触或未掌握的。在翻译时只想当然地用上自己学过的、知道的词义，又不根据上下文想想是否正确，就容易出错。
以上allow、help等例子中， 如果查查金山词霸等词典，可以发现有以下释义：
allow
使得以发生
This money allows me to buy a car.
这笔钱可使我买一部小汽车。
（与“允许”的词义相差甚远）
help
To refrain from; avoid or resist. Used with can or cannot:
控制；阻止或抵制。与 Can或 Cannot连用：
couldn't help laughing.
忍俊不禁
（与“帮助”的词义风马牛不相及）
所以，翻译时要勤查词典。至今我翻译时还要经常结合上下文查查这些学生时代学过的“简单的单词”是否有“不简单”的词义。 ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 06:55
Chinese to English
+ ...
kenny2006woo wrote:
呵呵，我是在开玩笑，不过没想到功力不到家，笑话也没说好。按词典的解释，在万岁爷的身上用help yourself to the meal确实不大适合。多谢二位前辈赐教。
咦，那个绿头小子怎么打不出来呢？龇牙的那个。
kenny,
哪里，你说得挺逗的，而且咱们之间更说不上是赐教。 大家随便聊聊，有些中英习惯用语上的差异就逐渐熟悉了。
龇牙的绿头小子有时的确显示不出，主要是因为中、英文标点不同。 Make sure you're in the English entry mode, and the system interface recognizes it as such. Typing a few periods (an ellipsis) in front of the intended smiley always works for me. Like so: ...
[Edited at 2011-09-18 13:40 GMT]
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kenny2006woo (X)
Local time: 19:55
English to Chinese
wherestip wrote: kenny2006woo wrote:
呵呵，我是在开玩笑，不过没想到功力不到家，笑话也没说好。按词典的解释，在万岁爷的身上用help yourself to the meal确实不大适合。多谢二位前辈赐教。
咦，那个绿头小子怎么打不出来呢？龇牙的那个。
kenny, 哪里，你说得挺逗的，而且咱们之间更说不上是赐教。 大家随便聊聊，有些中英习惯用语上的差异就逐渐熟悉了。 龇牙的绿头小子有时的确显示不出，主要是因为中、英文标点不同。 Make sure you're in the English entry mode. Typing a few periods (an ellipsis) in front of the intended smiley always works for me. Like so: ... [Edited at 2011-09-18 05:18 GMT]
...
咦，终于可以打了。谢谢wheretip前辈。
[Edited at 2011-09-18 07:54 GMT]
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