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［世纪疫症］之 新世事、新语言 Thread poster: David Lin
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David Shen 
United States
Local time: 04:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
| A sudden realization upon a polite greeting | Feb 15, 2022 |
《一见称呼，顿然醒悟》
LIZ LI wrote:
To前辈
...... 如果不听解释，谁又能知道，这说的——是五百年前的一次回眸？！？
......
LIZ,
三十余年一回眸，俨然已是一老朽。‘前辈’不敢当，仅是早入行。
我如是在国内，也许多少会‘与时俱进’而对这些个新词不会那么陌生了，或者说不会那么在乎了。可咱们既然是吃这碗饭的，人在海外还是不时地得跟中文的流行词打打交道。别说古典的难，新的更难！看来我真的是越来越背时了。二十多年前互联网还没普及（九十年代末），回国时就感到新鲜词汇在不断涌现，现在已经是眼花缭乱......
“大爷，退休了吧？”
“我呀，早就退了。"
“那您还不如那个呢。”
“不如哪个?”
大爷闲来到处逛，错入年轻人课堂。
余热跳作忠字舞，快跟大娘去广场!
你说得对
政策用词听我党，大小官员去推广。
精神深刻领会后，动员贯彻到各行。
（全民认真学习讨论如何落实最新指示中......）
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David Shen
United States
Local time: 04:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Glossaries and Style Guides help a lot | Feb 15, 2022 |
《格式规范，必不可少》
Jianrong Sun wrote:
关于“动态清零”、“零感染”、“时空伴随”等等
关于“动态清零”、“零感染”、“时空伴随”等等词汇，中文理解起来就费力，更别说翻译成英文了。对待这些词汇及其用法，我个人觉得，现在的媒体用得太随意了。对待这样的词汇，应该像对待学术术语一样，给出中英文定义并作出解释，否则很容易闹出笑话。我最近给Financial Times & Bloomberg做翻译，他们就很严谨；他们有自己的术语库及详细的风格指导，而国内的翻译社几乎没有严谨的术语库及风格指导。
Jianrong，
您所言极是，业者都应有 Style Guides。行业间通用的也好，自己积累编纂的也好，手头有了术语库及风格指导，事半功倍。当然口译只需知其然，笔译则须知其所以然。
现在的问题是这些不断涌现的“动态清零”这类新词常令翻译们无法知其所以然。这大约就是我们这个时代的风格或说朝代风格吧。
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LIZ LI
China
Local time: 19:36
French to Chinese
+ ...
| How about 先生？ | Feb 16, 2022 |
David Shen wrote:
《一见称呼，顿然醒悟》
三十余年一回眸，俨然已是一老朽。‘前辈’不敢当，仅是早入行。
我如是在国内，也许多少会‘与时俱进’而对这些个新词不会那么陌生了，或者说不会那么在乎了。可咱们既然是吃这碗饭的，人在海外还是不时地得跟中文的流行词打打交道。别说古典的难，新的更难！看来我真的是越来越背时了。二十多年前互联网还没普及（九十年代末），回国时就感到新鲜词汇在不断涌现，现在已经是眼花缭乱......
“大爷，退休了吧？”
“我呀，早就退了。"
“那您还不如那个呢。”
“不如哪个?”
大爷闲来到处逛，错入年轻人课堂。
余热跳作忠字舞，快跟大娘去广场!
你说得对
政策用词听我党，大小官员去推广。
精神深刻领会后，动员贯彻到各行。
（全民认真学习讨论如何落实最新指示中......）
年龄在翻译行业，从来都是无可比拟的优势。就好像不老的中医不值钱是一个道理。
我想强调的，是细分专业的趋势。
医生的术语和构词，有着医学的内在逻辑。经济新闻当中的新式表达，也代表了专业受众的认知和认可。
但如果非要把统计学的逻辑套用到文学或者电影作品当中，那就会产生误解。
所以，不能用文人的“0和1”，去理解Elon Musk的“0和1”；哪怕他们的的确确就是那个“0和1”，哪怕它已经被加进了TM而且客户也不准备为这几个字付钱。
想要理解CCP政策背后的逻辑，不在它发布的“官方术语”里面找，难道要听Donald Trump来解读吗？
Propaganda不是我的菜，但我理解和接受他人和我在认知上的差异。
如果不喜前辈的称呼，how about先生？
[Edited at 2022-02-16 05:32 GMT]
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David Shen
United States
Local time: 04:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Contemporary Chinese Expressions Observed | Apr 17, 2022 |
Five variations for the term "Lockdown"
《新词排队，天花乱坠》
"封城"在当代汉语中的五种表达法
1_临时社会面管控
2_分区分级差异化防控
3_全域静态管理
4_围合管理
5_静默期
Any suggestions on the translation of these new terms?
We were just talking about Style Guides a couple of weeks ago, trying to emphasize the importance of standardization in expressions. But the r... See more Five variations for the term "Lockdown"
《新词排队，天花乱坠》
"封城"在当代汉语中的五种表达法
1_临时社会面管控
2_分区分级差异化防控
3_全域静态管理
4_围合管理
5_静默期
Any suggestions on the translation of these new terms?
We were just talking about Style Guides a couple of weeks ago, trying to emphasize the importance of standardization in expressions. But the recent pandemic situation and lockdowns in mega cities like Shanghai and Guangzhou have given rise to a flurry of new words and phrases that pop up like different strains of the virus itself. As a person with very limited knowledge in the medical field, and having no clue what so ever in management, I have no idea what the subtleties are between these new terms. But I know that the translation of each of these terms needs to be different. The translator can not simply use the same English word "lockdown" for all these new Chinese expressions, although they basically mean the same thing. As a translator, I feel constantly challenged by the robust creativity in contemporary Chinese.
Source:
David Shen wrote: 《格式规范，必不可少》 Jianrong Sun wrote:
关于“动态清零”、“零感染”、“时空伴随”等等
关于“动态清零”、“零感染”、“时空伴随”等等词汇，中文理解起来就费力，更别说翻译成英文了。对待这些词汇及其用法，我个人觉得，现在的媒体用得太随意了。对待这样的词汇，应该像对待学术术语一样，给出中英文定义并作出解释，否则很容易闹出笑话。我最近给Financial Times & Bloomberg做翻译，他们就很严谨；他们有自己的术语库及详细的风格指导，而国内的翻译社几乎没有严谨的术语库及风格指导。 Jianrong， 您所言极是，业者都应有 Style Guides。行业间通用的也好，自己积累编纂的也好，手头有了术语库及风格指导，事半功倍。当然口译只需知其然，笔译则须知其所以然。 现在的问题是这些不断涌现的“动态清零”这类新词常令翻译们无法知其所以然。这大约就是我们这个时代的风格或说朝代风格吧。 ▲ Collapse
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Jianrong Sun
China
Local time: 19:36
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
举两个实例：个人观点，仅供参考。
1. 我在广东与德国人合作之时（那时我不是译者，完全是应德国人的请求），曾翻译/审核过某科技类的官样文件，那个措辞，那个调调！当时我就发誓，以后再也不接触此类中翻英的官样文件。
2. 我在南京某著名外资汽车零部件公司工作时，审核过公司的专业术语。原因是，公司英文专业术语有点随意，以至于老外看不明白。想想看，这些术语都是公司的专业人员在使用，竟然会出现老外看不明白的现象。
结论：
1. 中文为母语的人，会造各种与时俱进的词，这些词一般应用在特定的“圈圈”，然后向外扩散，进而变成热搜词，海外华人如不“跟进”，久了就“不知所云”了。
2. 中文为母语的人，在术语使用方面比较随性，不像西方人，比较严谨。
3. 作为译者，个人不建议翻译此类中翻英的文件。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 06:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
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LIZ LI
China
Local time: 19:36
French to Chinese
+ ...
| Sub-categories instead of variants | Apr 18, 2022 |
Jianrong Sun wrote:
结论：
1. 中文为母语的人，会造各种与时俱进的词，这些词一般应用在特定的“圈圈”，然后向外扩散，进而变成热搜词，海外华人如不“跟进”，久了就“不知所云”了。
2. 中文为母语的人，在术语使用方面比较随性，不像西方人，比较严谨。
所有 living languages 都在发展和变化当中，否则就要消亡了。
英语 social-distancing 的由来，法语国家因为 covid 这个词应该赋予阴性还是阳性的争论，不就是活生生的例子吗？
所以，既会造词又会造次的，可不单单是中文母语！
@David Shen，先生要想了解这些烦人的名词的具体区别，只要在微信上关注几个地区或者国家卫建委的公众号即可。一般出来一个新词，大家都云里雾里的时候，就会有具体释义出来。
想要官方一点的腔调，北上广的可以随机选择；深圳因为年轻人多，所以走亲民调侃的路线，还可以顺带多了解当下的网络用语。
内网这两天的热度都在中西医之争上——各怀鬼胎，互相妖魔化，眼累，心累。
各位可能得准备一下中医术语了……
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Jianrong Sun
China
Local time: 19:36
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
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David Shen
United States
Local time: 04:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Just complaining due to lack of understanding | Apr 18, 2022 |
《只为吐槽，不为译稿》
春雨无事，细读各位回应，颇有得益。谢谢！
Jianrong Sun wrote:
结论：
1. 中文为母语的人，会造各种与时俱进的词，这些词一般应用在特定的“圈圈”，然后向外扩散，进而变成热搜词，海外华人如不“跟进”，久了就“不知所云”了。
2. 中文为母语的人，在术语使用方面比较随性，不像西方人，比较严谨。
3. 作为译者，个人不建议翻译此类中翻英的文件。
我同意你的结论。纵观层出不穷的中文新词，随意兴发似乎是普遍现象：上到官媒，下到广告；俗到商品，雅到地名；散至网聊，高至论文；用词方面皆有欲取新奇求胜的趋势，以至于常让人不知所论为何物。人在国内，也得在“圈内”才行，哪我等在国外的就如隔江观花，眼力太差，根本瞧不准。至于工作我只局限于文艺题材的翻译，从不接触时事新闻类的翻译活。退休后更只接艺术类的稿子。所以上帖纯属吐糟，不为求证。
LIZ LI wrote:
所有 living languages 都在发展和变化当中，否则就要消亡了。
英语 social-distancing 的由来，法语国家因为 covid 这个词应该赋予阴性还是阳性的争论，不就是活生生的例子吗？所以，既会造词又会造次的，可不单单是中文母语！
这大约是这团迷雾之中我看到的唯一亮点：即不断增加同义词、近义词和变体词的趋势，也许若干年后能为中文词汇接近牛津大词典创造机会；就待有心人为之整理记录了。
LIZ LI wrote:
@David Shen，先生要想了解这些烦人的名词的具体区别，只要在微信上关注几个地区或者国家卫建委的公众号即可。一般出来一个新词，大家都云里雾里的时候，就会有具体释义出来。想要官方一点的腔调，北上广的可以随机选择；深圳因为年轻人多，所以走亲民调侃的路线，还可以顺带多了解当下的网络用语。
在国内时也许不得不学习一些所谓的“时事政治”，但从未认真过。我等如今早已成为闲云野鹤，才不愿为这堆理不清的杂物去烧脑。在我看来：官样文章，高亢激昂，云里雾里，虚词海量。大海捞针，以壮官腔。对谁有用？仕途至上。读过笑过，不用存档。
“掩耳到零”？
还是老孙的话不用解释，咱甚至可以试图直译。
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Jianrong Sun
China
Local time: 19:36
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
@David Shen
您提的这个问题倒是蛮有趣的，但我认为，不适于在Proz讨论；不然的话，稍一展开，Proz也许会让您删帖。
我觉得您可以发到推特上讨论。那里比较宽松，高手也多（当然，无脑之人也不少）。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 06:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Definition of Shanghai | Apr 23, 2022 |
David Shen wrote:
Five variations for the term "Lockdown"
2_（一图读懂上海）分区分级差异化防控
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/shanghaiing
shanghai
verb [ T ] informal
US /ˌʃæŋˈhaɪ/ UK /ˌʃæŋˈhaɪ/
to force someone to do something or go somewhere:
The two groups were shanghaied into signing the agreement, despite their objections.
The homeless are being shanghaied off the streets in some cities.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shanghai
shang·hai | \ ˈshaŋ-ˌhī , shaŋ-ˈhī \
shanghaied; shanghaiing
Definition of shanghai
transitive verb
1a : to put aboard a ship by force often with the help of liquor or a drug
b : to put by force or threat of force into or as if into a place of detention
2 : to put by trickery into an undesirable position
......
Did you know?
In the 1800s, long sea voyages were very difficult and dangerous, so people were understandably hesitant to become sailors. But sea captains and shipping companies needed crews to sail their ships, so they gathered sailors any way they could—even if that meant resorting to kidnapping by physical force or with the help of liquor or drugs. The word shanghai comes from the name of the Chinese city of Shanghai. People started to use the city's name for that unscrupulous way of obtaining sailors because the East was often a destination of ships that had kidnapped men onboard as crew.
Shanghai Surprise
http://www.hewdge.com/2012/08/shang-high/
Now, dear readers, which city in the world – apart from this one – can lay claim to its very own glamorous and rather wicked English language expression? To ‘Shanghai someone’ is said to have been first used in this context in the mid nineteenth century and means to drug a man unconscious, without his knowing, and ship him unwillingly as a sailor. Isn’t it MARVELOUS how a simple two-syllable word like Shanghai can boast such an intricate and exciting meaning? Yes, the expression originated from the illegal kidnapping to fill the crews of ships making extended voyages, such as to the Chinese seaport of Shanghai. 
[Edited at 2022-04-24 01:07 GMT]
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LIZ LI
China
Local time: 19:36
French to Chinese
+ ...
| Shanghai no more | Apr 25, 2022 |
ysun wrote: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/shanghaiing shanghai
verb [ T ] informal
US /ˌʃæŋˈhaɪ/ UK /ˌʃæŋˈhaɪ/
to force someone to do something or go somewhere:
The two groups were shanghaied into signing the agreement, despite their objections.
The homeless are being shanghaied off the streets in some cities. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shanghai shang·hai | \ ˈshaŋ-ˌhī , shaŋ-ˈhī \
shanghaied; shanghaiing
Definition of shanghai
transitive verb
1a : to put aboard a ship by force often with the help of liquor or a drug
b : to put by force or threat of force into or as if into a place of detention
2 : to put by trickery into an undesirable position
......
[Edited at 2022-04-24 01:07 GMT]
@ysun
It's now officially Edinburgh.
TM to be updated!
[Edited at 2022-04-25 03:21 GMT]
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David Shen
United States
Local time: 04:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Never heard that one before! | Apr 25, 2022 |
原来我还是 Too young, too simple!
ysun wrote: Definition of Shanghai https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/shanghaiing shanghai
verb [ T ] informal
US /ˌʃæŋˈhaɪ/ UK /ˌʃæŋˈhaɪ/
to force someone to do something or go somewhere:
The two groups were shanghaied into signing the agreement, despite their objections.
The homeless are being shanghaied off the streets in some cities.
学海无涯，以前还真不知道 "shanghai" 一词有此解！
剑桥牛津，先见之明：
看来用这一表达法来描述上海正在发生的情况，仍然顶用，如许多被莫名其妙装上大巴拖到外地去隔离的上海居民可用： Many Shanghai residents who tested positive were shanghaied to Hangzhou......
中文辞典，亦当跟进：
如“她被徐州了。She was xuzhoued at the age of fourteen.
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Jianrong Sun
China
Local time: 19:36
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
活到老，学到老，此言不谬也。
我现在每天翻译英文报刊的短文，几乎每天都能碰到英文成语，非常有意思，就是查出处及找到合适的中文表达比较费时间。
至于中文的新词汇，我真是一点兴趣也没有；不是歧视中文新词汇，而是觉得“痛”。比如，你提到的徐州，比如，“鸳鸯锅”、“时空伴随”等等，又比如xx电视台见人就称“老师”的翻译、“享受正处级待遇的主持工作的副处长”等等。你们在海外，也许没觉得什么，这都是我们的痛。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 06:36
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Shanghaied In Shanghai | Apr 25, 2022 |
David Shen wrote:
Many Shanghai residents who tested positive were shanghaied to Hangzhou......
David,
If I were in Shanghai and "the choice was mine", I would rather be shanghaied to Hangzhou or Suzhou than to Xuzhou because I'm gonna take a spring break! 
https://so.gushiwen.cn/shiwenv_dca0ef1f12bf.aspx
忆江南词三首
白居易 〔唐代〕
江南好，风景旧曾谙。日出江花红胜火，春来江水绿如蓝。能不忆江南？
江南忆，最忆是杭州。山寺月中寻桂子，郡亭枕上看潮头。何日更重游？
江南忆，其次忆吴宫。吴酒一杯春竹叶，吴娃双舞醉芙蓉。早晚复相逢？
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/mxpx/shanghaiedinshanghai.html
Shanghaied In Shanghai
I was dragged out, drugged up, crushed up like a paper cup
I was made a fool, and told a lie, I was shanghaied in shanghai
Shanghaied in shanghai
Shanghaied, I'm too young to die
Shanghaied in shanghai
Shanghaied, I'm too young to die
The choice was mine, to live or drown
Back breaking work from sun up to sun down
Swabbing the deck while I'm planning my escape
Liberty or death, I'm gonna make a break
[Edited at 2022-04-25 19:03 GMT]
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