op deze overeenkomst is het Engelse recht vqn toepassing

http://http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/pdf/ec.applicable.law.contracts.1980.pdf

Native in English

Specializes in field

Selected

Titia, David,

Article 4 of the EC Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations (Rome 1980) referred to by Titia states:
"Article 4 - Applicable law in the absence of choice
1. To the extent that the law applicable to the contract has not been chosen in accordance with article 3, the contract SHALL BE GOVERNED BY THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY with which it is most closely connected. Nevertheless, a severable part of the contract which has a closer connection with another country may by way of exception BE GOVERNED BY THE LAW OF THAT OTHER COUNTRY.

This must surely clinch the argument, the more so since you suggested the source yourself.

I look foward to your comments.

Reference:

4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.

-1

26 mins

Dave Greatrix

United Kingdom

certified/sworn translator

Native in English

Works in field

English law is applicable to this agreement

I'm English

Peer comment(s):

disagree

jarry (X) : See http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ...

4 hrs

-1

27 mins

Alexander Schleber (X)

Belgium

4978 answers

Native in English

the laws of the United Kingdom are applicable to this agreement

Telstra United Kingdom - Copyright
... This web-site and its contents are subject to copyright under the laws of the
United Kingdom and, through international treaties, other countries. The ...
www.telstra.co.uk/copyrightpg.htm - 18k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's

HTH

Peer comment(s):

disagree

Dave Greatrix : united kingdom is England,Wales,Scotland,Northern Ireland,Channel Islands,Gibraltar and God knows where else

8 mins

-1

39 mins

Henri (X)

1707 answers

This agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of England

Please note that I am a

Reference:

Peer comment(s):

disagree

Dave Greatrix : construed can mean to be understood in a particular way.That has not been asked for in the text.

11 mins

-1

1 hr

Sven Petersson

Sweden

17353 answers

Native in English

This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according

Standard formulation:

This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according
to English law.

Reference:

My geriatric brain.

Peer comment(s):

disagree	Dave Greatrix : see below 2 hrs
	What's your objection??????

-1

1 hr

Sven Petersson

Sweden

17353 answers

Native in English

This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according

Standard formulation:

This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according
to English law.

Reference:

My geriatric brain.

Confirmed by Google.

Peer comment(s):

disagree

Dave Greatrix : see below

1 hr

-1

1 hr

Evert DELOOF-SYS

Belgium

5122 answers

Native in Dutch

Specializes in field

This agreement shall be governed by English laws

Ref.:
"... shall be considered deleted and not apply but the rest of this agreement shall apply.
16. This Agreement shall be governed by English laws and English Courts. ..."

www.costumecrazy.co.uk/Terms.asp

Peer comment(s):

disagree

Dave Greatrix : see below

1 hr

3 hrs

jarry (X)

South Africa

Native in English

Specializes in field

This agreement shall be governed by English law

(NOT laws).

Peer comment(s):

disagree	Dave Greatrix : see below 13 mins
	See http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ...
agree	Evert DELOOF-SYS 22 mins

3 hrs

Dave Greatrix

United Kingdom

Native in English

Works in field

I do not agree with the use of the word governed.

This would imply that the agreement is under the influence of English Law. Which is clearly not the case. The only time that English Law would be APPLICABLE would be in the case of a dispute, which may be a situation that never arises.

Peer comment(s):

agree	Titia Dijkstra : The best choice is a literal translation - English law graduate. 33 mins
	Thanks,Titia
disagree	jarry (X) : SWee http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ... 1 hr
	The author has used the words "van toepassing"

-1

3 hrs

Dave Greatrix

United Kingdom

Native in English

Works in field

Info

Main Entry: gov.ern
Pronunciation: 'g&-v&rn
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French governer, from Latin gubernare to steer, govern, from Greek kybernan
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to exercise continuous sovereign authority over; especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy in b : to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy
2 a archaic : MANIPULATE b : to control the speed of (as a machine) especially by automatic means
3 a : to control, direct, or strongly influence the actions and conduct of b : to exert a determining or guiding influence in or over c : to hold in check : RESTRAIN
4 : to require (a word) to be in a certain case
5 : to serve as a precedent or deciding principle for
intransitive senses
1 : to prevail or have decisive influence : CONTROL
2 : to exercise authority
- gov.ern.able /-v&r-n&-b&l/ adjective

Peer comment(s):

disagree	jarry (X) : See http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ... 1 hr
	govern is regeren or besturen!

1 day 4 hrs

Shilpa Dawda

India

72 answers

Native in English

Works in field

this agreements falls under the jurisdiction of English law

or the laws of the United Kindgom.

--- that's what's written in any agreements that are signed here in India, which again is a left over from the Britishers...

1 day 18 hrs

Dave Greatrix

United Kingdom

Native in English

Works in field

I am amazed at

the number of attempts to replace the authors text with one of their own. I know that there is such a thing as translators licence, but get real.
Remember KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid.

No offence intended, (It's timeshare jargon)

Peer comment(s):

disagree	jarry (X) : David, there is no 'replacement'; govern is the standard wording in English in this instance. Get with it! 17 mins
	Jarry, without more context, I do not feel that it is our place to elaborate on what the author has written.
agree	Titia Dijkstra 5 hrs
	Thank you, Titia. It does annoy me when people try to make a novel out of a comic.

2 days 1 hr

jarry (X)

South Africa

Native in English

Specializes in field

David,

To insinuate that I am making a novel out of a comic is rather uncalled for, to put it mildly. I would suggest that you confine your comments to the subject matter under review and show us that 'This agreement is governed by English law' is not the standard wording for: "Op deze overeenkomst is het Engelse recht van toepassing". If you succeed, you will create quite a stir with quite a lot of people, including some well-known experts. I have been using this standard translation for some 20 years! I look forward to your attempts.

Peer comment(s):

agree	Dave Greatrix : No offence meant, Jarry, but it's difficuilt to wink online. I'm quit a nice chap actually, ask my wife. 1 day 7 hrs
	There are a number of symbols for winking on line (:- When next you are in Cape Town drop in for a delicious glass of Cape wine!

-1

2 days 6 hrs

Titia Dijkstra

Native in Dutch & English

Specializes in field

applicable to

I would like to add to the merits of this discussion. I've been a legal translator for top lawyers for more than six years (admittedly not as long as Jarry), but in addition to my studies in law in England and in Holland quite a track record I would say.
In my experience, one should be slow to claim anything as a "standard" translation in legal translation. I stand by David's choice - it is also the choice of quite a few experts that I know (with a British law background).

Peer comment(s):

disagree

jarry (X) : See my comments below

11 hrs

2 days 18 hrs

jarry (X)

South Africa

Native in English

Specializes in field

Titia,

Experts, as you know, don't always agree.
In this case there is no question of being slow or quick in claiming that something is a 'standard' translation. It can substantiated in a number of ways. The definition of govern in Black's Law Dictionary for instance is: "To be a rule, precedent, law, or deciding principle."
What I would like to know from you or David is: What else can the words "Op deze overeenkomst is het Engelse recht van toepassing" mean than that 'English law governs this agreement'. If you can convince me that it means something else than that, bearing Black's definition in mind, I will gladly change my mind.
I would also urge the two of you to look at the many hits you get in Google for 'governed by English law'. From the context in which these words are used, you can judge that they have the same meaning as the Dutch phrase under review.
For the time being I stand by my suggested translation.

2 days 19 hrs

Titia Dijkstra

Native in Dutch & English

Specializes in field

applicable to

I'll agree with Jarry that experts don't always agree.
He uses Black's as a starting point for the discussion and although there can be no doubt that Black's is an excellent source on terminology commonly used in American law, I only use British and EC law sources (Oxford has published an extensive British law dictionary, but not with quite as many entries as Black's).
I would like to point out that this is the title of an EC Convention: EC Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations (Rome 1980).
Similarly, if one enters "applicable to" in Google, one gets quite a few useful references.

-1

2 days 19 hrs

Titia Dijkstra

Native in Dutch & English

Specializes in field

applicable to

I'll agree with Jarry that experts don't always agree.
Again, he uses Black's as a starting point for the discussion and although there can be no doubt that Black's is an excellent source on terminology commonly used in American law, I only use British and EC law sources (Oxford has published an extensive British law dictionary, but not with quite as many entries as Black's).
I would like to point out in support of David's/my choice that this is the title of an EC Convention: EC Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations (Rome 1980).
Similarly, if one enters "applicable to" in Google, one gets quite a few useful references.

Peer comment(s):

disagree

jarry (X) : Please see:http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/pdf/ec.applicable.law.contracts.198... (article 4)

1 hr

2 days 23 hrs

Titia Dijkstra

Native in Dutch & English

Specializes in field

applicable to

All I can say that the fact that the wording of the article uses the words "governed by" does not alter the fact that "applicable to" is used in the title of the convention.
So no, I certainly can't agree to Jarry's statement that the article settles the matter . . .

Peer comment(s):

neutral

jarry (X) : You are the one who said: I only use British and EC law sources

18 hrs

2 days 23 hrs

Titia Dijkstra

Native in Dutch & English

Specializes in field

applicable to

Another addition, maybe this will make the matter clearer.
If I were to translate this article into Dutch I would use "van toepassing op" for "applicable to" and "beheerst door" for "governed by" . . .
(P.s. I would rather stop discussing this and maybe I'll leave at this)

Peer comment(s):

disagree	jarry (X) : I continue to disagree and will gladly leave at that. 1 hr
agree	Dave Greatrix : Don't you just love a good scrap? 18 hrs

3 days 7 hrs

Dave Greatrix

United Kingdom