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Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

deux ans de prison dont un ferme

anglais translation:

one year in prison plus a one-year suspended sentence

Added to glossary by siragui
Jan 16, 2008 22:07
16 yrs ago
12 viewers *
français term

deux ans de prison dont un ferme

français vers anglais Droit / Brevets Droit (général) Criminal justice/Penal systems
Is there a standard translation of "ferme" in this context?

Here's an article using it:

Lundi, Philippe Nativel avait requis un an de prison – au lieu des quatre prévus par la loi du 10 août 2007 instaurant des peines planchers pour les récidivistes – à l'égard d'un homme pris en flagrant délit de trafic de stupéfiants dans un centre commercial, alors qu'il avait été condamné à **deux ans de prison, dont un ferme**, l'an dernier pour des faits de même nature.
(Le Monde, 30 août 2007)
Proposed translations (anglais)
4 +3 Redo the maths
4 +4 a two-year prison sentence, of which one year was suspended
4 +3 two years of prison of which one is mandatary
4 +3 prison sentence of two years one of them suspended
4 sentenced to two years in prison, but only had to serve one year
Change log

Jan 17, 2008 19:52: siragui Created KOG entry

Discussion

siragui (asker) Jan 17, 2008:
For Info: RC also translates "ferme" as "without remission" (no mention of colloquialism). But I was sure the Kudoz bunch could do better.
Graham macLachlan Jan 17, 2008:
this remission thing is a red herring; one of my quotes from O/H dictionary was in a colloquial register and in any case in the context of a prison sentence the word means deliverance, release, liberation...

Proposed translations

+3
2 heures
Selected

Redo the maths

One year in prison / in custody / of incarceration plus a one-year suspended sentence / plus a suspended sentence of 1 year

sentence of two years incarceration, plus a suspended sentence that. could be as long as thirty years.” Id., 69 Conn. App. at 748, 796. A.2d at 497. ...
www.courts.state.md.us/opinions/cosa/2007/2872s05.pdf -

Judge Otis leniently ordered Defendant Pendergast to pay $10000, serve 15 months (plus a suspended sentence of three years, five years on probation). ...
www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,931231,00.html

All five were sentenced to one year in jail plus a suspended sentence, but will not return to jail having spent more than a year in US custody. ...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7152117.stm

Johnston’s nine-month jail sentence (plus a suspended sentence of two-and-a-half years) was extremely harsh and extremely political. ...
www.greenleft.org.au/2005/628/34628

sentences – custody plus, a suspended sentence and intermittent custody – which are. promoted as ‘new and innovative types of sentences that combine custody ...
pun.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/7/4/419.pdf?ck=nck

From Jamal al-Tawil’s sentencing, after a plea bargain had been reached and he had been given a three-year sentence plus a suspended sentence and fined 5000 ...
intelligence.org.il/eng/sib/2_05/funds_d.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree Emma Paulay
7 heures
agree katsy : yes, one year's imprisonment (just another way of putting it!) plus a 1 year suspended sentence, as you say :-)
7 heures
agree David Goward : Katsy's wording
9 heures
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I like the logic of this approach. (Especially since the jury is still out on an acceptable translation of "ferme".) Thanks everyone."
+3
7 minutes

two years of prison of which one is mandatary

it means that one year of the sentence cannot be reduced for good behavior in prison
Reference:

http://www.coe.int/t/f/droits_de_l'homme/NGOcompilation.asp

Peer comment(s):
agree JoanL : one year mandatory is much better - than my suggestion I meant to say!
12 minutes
thank you!
neutral Sheila Wilson : ferme doesn't mean with no remission - it just means a custodial sentence and normally you only serve 50% or so behind bars - no remission is reserved for special cases eg life
18 minutes
agree Anca Nitu : one year mandatory http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=246035
1 heure
thank you!
agree AllegroTrans
1 heure
neutral David BUICK : What Sheila Wilson said. No remission = "peine de sûreté"
8 heures
neutral Julie Barber : ferme means custodial not mandatary
11 heures
Something went wrong...
+3
18 minutes

prison sentence of two years one of them suspended

Jur (sans sursis) peine de prison ferme = custodial sentence; cinq ans de prison ferme, cinq ans ferme = a five-year sentence with no remission.

trois mois de prison dont deux avec sursis = prison sentence of three months two of them suspended;
Oxford/Hachette

I don't this combination is done in the UK ie it is suspended or not
Note from asker:
Good point: if one is "ferme", the other is suspended.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Sheila Wilson : agree with your suggested translation but must point out that ferme doesn't mean with no remission - it just means a custodial sentence and normally of a 5-year sentence only 3 would be actually behind bars
4 minutes
indeed the 2nd ex. is colloquial and indicated as such in the dictionary, I should have omitted it for the sake of clarity
agree Bourth (X) : Or "one year prison PLUS a 1-yr suspended sentence"
2 heures
thanks
agree David BUICK : I agree with the suggested answer but with the same important proviso re: the explanation as Sheila Wilson points out.
8 heures
indeed the 2nd ex. is colloquial and indicated as such in the dictionary, I should have omitted it for the sake of clarity
agree Victoria Porter-Burns : I like your suggestion, graham, but with a comma after 'years' I would say
10 heures
Something went wrong...
+4
36 minutes

a two-year prison sentence, of which one year was suspended

It's not something that happens in the UK (or didn't when I last lived there) - a prison sentence there is either served or suspended.

In France, it is very often a bit of each. In this case, he/she is sentenced to a 1-year prison sentence (ie behind bars), plus they will have a 1-year term hanging over their head to be taken into account if they get anything worse than a parking ticket in the foreseeable future.

Of course, they probably won't be behind bars for a whole year, as they will be eligible for remission from halfway through the term.
Peer comment(s):
agree ACOZ (X)
58 minutes
Thanks
agree Bourth (X) : Or "one year prison PLUS a 1-yr suspended sentence" - strikes me as less complicated.
1 heure
Thanks Bourth - it is less complicated that way
agree Julie Barber
10 heures
Thanks
agree David Goward : with your reasoning, although I prefer Katsy's way of saying it (below).
11 heures
Thanks
Something went wrong...
5 heures

sentenced to two years in prison, but only had to serve one year

or "sentenced to two years imprisonment, only one of which he had to serve'. Although the suggested 'one year of which was suspended' gives you the same result in this case, it's not what the French says, and it's quite common to talk about the number of years a convict actually had to serve, as compared to the length of his sentence, to express this in English.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Sheila Wilson : It's not the way I understand it - this is the sentence, and it isn't the sentencing judge who decides if there will be remission (apart from in the case of life sentences). In actual fact, the person may have to serve this time in the future.
4 heures
Something went wrong...
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