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hypothèques légales
convienne du for

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

l\'appréciation de l\'effectif

English translation:

[considered] as part of the workforce

Added to glossary by Timothy Rake
May 19, 2011 18:13
13 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

l'appréciation de l'effectif

French to English Bus/Financial Human Resources Statutes for trainees
this term is expressed in one of the articles governing school trainees ("stagiaires") working in an enterprise as part of their education requirements. the particular article reads:

– Ils ne peuvent prétendre à aucune rémunération de l'entreprise.
– Une gratification peut leur être versée si son montant ne dépasse pas 30% du SMIC.
– Ils ne doivent pas être pris en compte pour l'appréciation de l'effectif de l'entreprise en ne peuvent participer à une quelconque élection professionnelle.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 [considered] as part of the workforce
4 are not to be included when assessing the number of employees (l'appréciation du nombre d'effectif)
3 estimating the workforce
4 -2 assessment of the personnel/workforce/employees
Change log

May 20, 2011 08:43: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Law: Contract(s)" to "Human Resources"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Rob Grayson

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Discussion

liz askew May 20, 2011:
Nice to know this one got sorted out after all. I have no problem with disagreeing with others, even when I am proved incorrect. I don't like to let things pass though without thorough investigtion, even though some of you think you know better. I always question. This may make me look like a twit in some people's eyes, but it doesn't bother me.
liz askew May 20, 2011:
@writeway. the French is not perfectly clear. If it were, the asker wouldn't have posted in the first place. If you mean the French is clear to you, then say so, although you did not post an answer to enlighten everyone:)
writeaway May 20, 2011:
The French is perfectly clear It's not legalese. It's pure HR speak
liz askew May 20, 2011:
Well, my evidence is based on linguistics. So all I can say is that the text is poorly expressed in French, and not clear at all. Perhaps this is why Timothy posted this in the first place!! The legal experts are not the best writers/linguists, is it any wonder they can twist things round eh??
mchd May 20, 2011:
@ liz L'évidence est peut-être de connaître un peu le droit du travail et la gestion du personnel en France. L'évidence est également celle de la gestion de personnel. Il ne s'agit nullement d'une appréciation qualitative dans une démarche de contrôle qualité par exemple.
liz askew May 20, 2011:
Well, it is not clear to me, particularly as nobody has convinced me through any particular evidence, which is how I work.
liz askew May 20, 2011:
Well, it is not clear to me, particularly as nobody has convinced me through any particular evidence, which is how I work.
mchd May 20, 2011:
@ liz everything is clear and evident in this context. Appraisal/assessment are not relevant terms.
liz askew May 20, 2011:
@writeaway. As I said, it is not 100% clear. All evidence points towards "appraisal", unless you add "le nombre du"... This is why the client needs to be approached.
liz askew May 20, 2011:
Well, at least I haven't changed the original context!!!
liz askew May 20, 2011:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=appréciaton appraisal&hl=en...
tons of references indicating that "appréciation" = appraisal/assessment.
mchd May 20, 2011:
@ liz these examples are outside this context.
writeaway May 20, 2011:
@Liz Look at the context. How can your proposed translation (here and as an answer) work? Mchd has kindly provided an explanation of what the Fr actually means in this context.
liz askew May 20, 2011:
@Timothy. This is an important issue, as it involves Law. I would ask the client myself because there are blatantly two interpretations for this, one is based on adding "du nombre de" and the other is based on your actual wording.
liz askew May 20, 2011:
Routledge French dictionary of business, commerce and finance - Google Books Result
Routledge (Firm) - 1996 - Business & Economics - 1123 pages
... container handling pièce biconique de saisissage/ staff' n hrm personnel m; - appraisal n hrm, mgmnt appréciation du personnel / évaluation du personnel ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0415093945..
liz askew May 20, 2011:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lHAVZwy...

appréciation du personnel : performance review, staff appraisal
MatthewLaSon May 19, 2011:
Mchd is correct It would have been clearer if the French had read "pour l'appréciation du nombre d'effectif".
writeaway May 19, 2011:
mchd has now explained what it means. appréciation is a bit of a false friend here. as so often, it doesn't mean the same thing as it does in En.
mchd May 19, 2011:
Un point de vue "français" il s'agit d'une estimation, non pas en terme de qualité, mais en terme de quantité, d'effectif de personnel, de nombre de personnes. Un stagiaire n'est pas considéré comme un membre du personnel de l'entreprise dans laquelle il effectue ce stage.
philgoddard May 19, 2011:
Timothy What does your wife think? Maybe she should submit an answer and we'll decide :-)
liz askew May 19, 2011:
Timothy, FWIW, I didn't find this obvious either:)
Timothy Rake (asker) May 19, 2011:
I did consult standard dictionary translation, and then I had a disagreement with my wive (who is French) over what was meant to say here. Thanks for the backup.
philgoddard May 19, 2011:
Well, it's not that easy, writeaway - I'm not totally sure what it means. Is it just that they're not defined as employees?
writeaway May 19, 2011:
standard dictionary translations don't work? have you already rejected standard dictionary translations?

Proposed translations

+3
9 hrs
French term (edited): l\'appréciation de l\'effectif
Selected

[considered] as part of the workforce

My suggestion is to consider the context of the entire sentence in order to come up with a natural-sounding English sentence:

FR: Ils ne doivent pas être pris en compte pour l'appréciation de l'effectif de l'entreprise.
EN: They shall not considered as part of the company’s workforce.

Wording is based on the Youth Exchange Agreement from the Embassy of France in Canada (see page 19):
FR: [Le stagaire] n’est pas pris en compte pour l’appréciation de l’effectif de l’entreprise.
EN: Interns are not considered as part of the company’s workforce.
http://www.ambafrance-ca.org/IMG/pdf/visa2C_en_05052009.pdf

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2011-05-20 13:14:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops. I meant "They shall not be considered as part of the workforce." :-/
And yes, as writeaway and rkillings suggest, "counted" works quite well here too. :-)
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : finally -someone who read AND understood mchd's explanation of what it means -in HER native language-. This is the meaning in En. As soon as the word 'effectif' is used, it almost 'has' to be about numbers. this is 100% HR-not legalese at all./counted-YES
5 hrs
Thank you!
agree rkillings : Or simply *counted* as part of the workforce.
5 hrs
Thank you!
agree mchd
2 days 3 hrs
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
29 mins

estimating the workforce

depending on how you structure the sentence you may need to use estimate, estimating or estimation.
Peer comment(s):
neutral SafeTex : "assessment" could be taken as referring to their qualities and not the work force number
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
-2
32 mins

assessment of the personnel/workforce/employees

1.
mieux contrôler l'effectif de l'entreprise. - WordReference Forums
3 posts - 3 authors - Last post: 13 Jun 2007
mieux contrôler l'effectif de l'entreprise. ... We implemented the tools allowing to better control company's manpower. ...
forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=545789 - Cached
►
2. EXCEL PERSONNEL INC., KAMLOOPS, 200-418 ST PAUL ST.
Company presentation page EXCEL PERSONNEL INC., KAMLOOPS, ... L'entreprise pleine de recrutement de service fournissant la recherche exécutive, permanente, ... Quoi que vos besoins d'effectifs, Excel livre avec les candidats de qualité ...
www.cylex.ca/company/excel-personnel-inc--17280499.html - Cached
3. Staff Glucklich Markt
to contact the company staff contattare l'organico dell'azienda contacter l'effectif de l'entreprise. contactar el plantilla de la empresa kontaktieren das ...
www.glucklichmarkt.com/staff.htm - Cached
1.
Décret d'application relatif au conjoint collaborateur - ACTIF
- [ Translate this page ]
L'appréciation de l'effectif est effectuée conformément aux articles L. ... Pour les conjoints collaborateurs de chefs d'entreprise non déclarés à la date ...
www.federation-actif.com/actualites/contenu_actus.php?_id=4... - Cached
2. [PDF]
Aide à l'embauche pour les très petites entreprises
- [ Translate this page ]
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
Calcul des effectifs. L'appréciation de l'effectif de l'entreprise est fonction de la date d'embauche du salarié et de la date de création de l'entreprise. ...
www.emploisudcorse.org/.../AIDE A L'EMBAUCHE DES TPE.p...
1.
Entretien Individuel d'Appréciation - WordReference Forums
5 posts - 4 authors - Last post: 10 Nov 2010
Entretien Individuel d'Appréciation French-English Vocabulary ... Individual performance review or individual performance assessment. ...
forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1973375 - Cached
2. performance assessment - Traduction française – Linguee
- [ Translate this page ]
D'autres personnes ont traduit 'performance assessment' en français ... Cela peut s'expliquer au vu des résultats des campagnes d'appréciation : très peu de ...
www.linguee.fr/anglais-francais/.../performance assessment.... - Cached


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Note added at 33 mins (2011-05-19 18:46:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

i.e.

this involves assessing increments/increase in wages/salaries for employees

trainees are exempt from this

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-05-19 19:47:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

and

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13 Oct 2005 ... (KudoZ) French to English translation of l'appréciation: assess / assessment [Manual for a franchise store - Marketing / Market Research ...
www.proz.com › ... › French to English › Marketing / Market Research - Cached

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Note added at 12 hrs (2011-05-20 07:09:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Further information:


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CnWYxqL...


La période d’appréciation de l’effectif : les changements
La période à laquelle il faut se situer pour apprécier l’effectif varie aussi selon les obligations. Parfois, le seuil doit être atteint pendant 12 mois consécutifs ou non au cours des 3 années précédentes. Parfois, il s’apprécie au 31 décembre de l’année considérée ou de l’année précédente et il est égal à la moyenne des effectifs déterminés chaque mois de l’année civile.

Par exemple, pour le paiement des cotisations de sécurité sociale, l’effectif déterminant pour l’année entière, la périodicité du paiement des cotisations de sécurité sociale s’apprécie au 31 décembre de l’année précédente.

Versement Transport

L’assujettissement au versement transport n’est plus fonction du nombre de salariés occupés dans une zone de transport au dernier jour du trimestre. En effet, pour savoir si une entreprise dépasse le seuil de 9 salariés entraînant son assujettissement au versement transport, l’effectif est désormais déterminé au 31 décembre de l’année en fonction de la moyenne des effectifs déterminés le dernier jour de chaque mois de l’année civile, étant précisé toutefois que les mois au cours desquels aucun salarié n’est employé ne sont pas pris en compte.

Pour l’appréciation de l’effectif mensuel, il est tenu compte des salariés qui sont titulaires d’un contrat de travail le dernier jour de chaque mois, y compris les salariés absents, et dont le lieu de travail est situé dans le périmètre d’une autorité organisatrice de transport. Pour une entreprise créée en cours d’année, l’effectif est, pour la première année, apprécié à la date de sa création.

Ce décret modifiant les modalités d’appréciation de l’effectif sonne le glas des dispositions spécifiques appliquées jusqu’à présent, pour le versement transport, aux entreprises ayant un effectif fluctuant d’un trimestre à l’autre dans la mesure où il pose désormais le principe d’un assujettissement au versement de transport pour une année dépendant de l’effectif calculé au 31 décembre de l’année précédente.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2011-05-20 07:19:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Routledge French dictionary of business, commerce and finance - Google Books Result
Routledge (Firm) - 1996 - Business & Economics - 1123 pages
... container handling pièce biconique de saisissage/ staff' n hrm personnel m; - appraisal n hrm, mgmnt appréciation du personnel / évaluation du personnel ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0415093945..

= appraisal


based on the given context this does not meaning numbers of staff/workforce
Peer comment(s):
disagree writeaway : wrong end of the stick. the word 'effectif' triggers the number aspect. the Fr is actually quite clear. this is pure HR, not legalese/the Fr is perfectly clear in the context.
13 hrs
you should have posted an answer if you knew then!! I still don't think I have got the wrong end of the stick at all. This is open to two interpretations. It is the original French that is unclear.
disagree mchd : cela ne correspond pas au contexte
2 days 12 hrs
Something went wrong...
5 hrs

are not to be included when assessing the number of employees (l'appréciation du nombre d'effectif)

Hello,

It would have been clearer if the French had read "l'appréciation d'effectif".

Appréciation de l'effectif : L'appréciation du nombre de salariés s'effectue en se référant à l'année civile concernée soit pour cette année ...

http://www.fafpcm.com/bases/pdf/contribution3/13/NoticeCMplu...


I hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2011-05-21 00:07:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

When assessing the number of people living in a dwelling who may be liable ... When assessing the number of adults resident in a household for Council Tax ...
www.braintree.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/1E2F48DD-249A.../Prisoner...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2011-05-21 00:14:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I prefer "employees" here to "workforce", but that's just my opinion.
Peer comment(s):
agree SafeTex : spot on
4 hrs
Thank you, SafeTex! I appreciate it.
disagree liz askew : how do we know for sure this is what the author meant, if you have edited the text?
7 hrs
Hello. My answer above explains how, Appréciation de l'effectif : L'appréciation du nombre de salariés s'effectue en se référant à l'année civile concernée soit pour cette année http://www.fafpcm.com/bases/pdf/contribution3/13/NoticeCMplu...
Something went wrong...
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