Jun 11, 2012 17:33
11 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
cran
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Electronics / Elect Eng
Circuit breaker operating curves
"Nouveau cran T: Créer une courbe avec un nouveau cran T à partir de la courbe sélectionnée"
This is a string from a piece of software, apparently for designing highly complex industrial (etc.) electrical installations. There is obviously a command named 'Nouveau cran T', and the text following explains what it is for.
Now the surrounding context is talking about the 'operating curves' for circuit breakers; traditionally, you can have 'Curve B' or 'Curve C' circuit breakers. However, the clever modern electronic gizmos can now be programmed with custom curves, and this is what we are talking about here.
This part of the software lets you design your own custom curve by establishing 'points' that will define its time/current tripping characteristic.
Now these 'curves' take on some weird and wonderful shapes, with 'knees' and 'kinks' in them all over the place — reminiscent of the hind leg of something or other...
I believe this is probably what these 'crans' are — and since we are talking about current (I) and time (T) characteristics, I think it is highly likely that the 'T' does indeed stand for 'time'.
I've been researching this for ages, but the trouble is, there is such a lot of 'noise' out there, it's almost impossible to "sort the wheat from the chaff"; so I haven't been able to find a reliable definition in FR of just what a 'cran' is, nor have I been able to find what might appear to be an equivalent term in EN material on the same subject; although these kinky curves are widely illustrated and discussed, I have not so far found what more technical term they use to describe the 'kinks' (assuming, of course, that is what they are in the first place!)
It's extremely difficult to get answers out of my end customer, so I was wondering if one of you kind souls might possibly have the specialist knowledge required to help me out, please?
This is a string from a piece of software, apparently for designing highly complex industrial (etc.) electrical installations. There is obviously a command named 'Nouveau cran T', and the text following explains what it is for.
Now the surrounding context is talking about the 'operating curves' for circuit breakers; traditionally, you can have 'Curve B' or 'Curve C' circuit breakers. However, the clever modern electronic gizmos can now be programmed with custom curves, and this is what we are talking about here.
This part of the software lets you design your own custom curve by establishing 'points' that will define its time/current tripping characteristic.
Now these 'curves' take on some weird and wonderful shapes, with 'knees' and 'kinks' in them all over the place — reminiscent of the hind leg of something or other...
I believe this is probably what these 'crans' are — and since we are talking about current (I) and time (T) characteristics, I think it is highly likely that the 'T' does indeed stand for 'time'.
I've been researching this for ages, but the trouble is, there is such a lot of 'noise' out there, it's almost impossible to "sort the wheat from the chaff"; so I haven't been able to find a reliable definition in FR of just what a 'cran' is, nor have I been able to find what might appear to be an equivalent term in EN material on the same subject; although these kinky curves are widely illustrated and discussed, I have not so far found what more technical term they use to describe the 'kinks' (assuming, of course, that is what they are in the first place!)
It's extremely difficult to get answers out of my end customer, so I was wondering if one of you kind souls might possibly have the specialist knowledge required to help me out, please?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | band |
Alison MacG
|
| 4 | degree/level |
narasimha (X)
|
| 3 | notch |
pooja_chic
|
| 3 | knot point/vector |
SafeTex
|
Proposed translations
4 days
Alison MacG
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Patents and related material specialist
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish, UK) 
Works in: German to English, French to English, Swedish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
band
There is at least some evidence of "cran" being used in this sense in the field in question.
Please see my reference entry below for more details
Please see my reference entry below for more details
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks a lot, Alison!
With the help of your references, I think I can understand better just what is going on now, and this fits perfectly; at any rate, the customer has accepted this terml, so we can move on to the next thorny problem...
Again, thanks a whole bunch for taking the time and trouble to help! "
6 mins
pooja_chic
Native in English
Specializes in field
Translation is depth of the passion
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English to French, Portuguese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
24
notch
...just a suggestion
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Pooja! That would, of course, be the obvious literal translation; but the trouble is, on these graphs, there is really nothing that looks remotely like (or could be described as) a notch; although kinky, the curves are not re-entrant in anyway (as far as I can see, at any rate!) |
5 hrs
knot point/vector
I'm not sure that T = Time either. Could it be 'tension' . And why do you say 'I = current?
But I'm not an expert and half guessing, half researching
But I'm not an expert and half guessing, half researching
Note from asker:
| Thanks, S/T! In electrical work, current (as a dimension) is often abbreviated as I (in both FR and EN), and voltage is almost always U or V (again, in both FR and EN). |
| Thanks, S/T! Sadly, I haven't found any solid corroboration of these terms in my context, so am wary of sticking my neck out! |
12 hrs
degree/level
Create a curve with a new degree/level T from the selected curve
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2012-06-12 11:48:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
T for time is perfectly correct and it can be level/degree/standard.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2012-06-12 11:48:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
T for time is perfectly correct and it can be level/degree/standard.
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Narasimha! I don't quite think any of these terms exactly describe what is going on in my particular context, at any rate, I haven't found any convincing references. |
Reference comments
19 hrs
Alison MacG
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Patents and related material specialist
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish, UK)
Works in: German to English, French to English, Swedish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Reference:
Hi Tony - I don't know nearly enough about this field, but I have found a couple of things that you could look into further.
Re your "kinks" suggestion - In a different context, ArcGIS software refers to "effet cran" or "jog effect":
Effet Cran - L'effet Cran crée une ligne dynamique avec un cran ayant un angle, une position et une largeur spécifiés dans la ligne.
http://help.arcgis.com/fr/arcgisdesktop/10.0/pdf/whats_new_i...
Jog Effect - The Jog effect creates a dynamic line with a jog of specified angle, position, and width in the line.
http://help.arcgis.com/en/arcgisdesktop/10.0/pdf/whats_new_i...
"Band" or "band setting" is something else that comes up, e.g.:
Short-Time I2T Band - Select the Short-Time I2T band setting from drop-down list. The Short-Time I2T band has two settings, i.e. IN and OUT, the default being set to OUT. The IN setting shifts the Short-Time band curve inward (sloped line) and the OUT setting shifts the Short-Time band curve outward (L-shaped).
http://ftp.softhome.com.tw/files/3/10443_kl2ui7hi7ty3hj5_81....
or
Short Time Bands
The EntelliGuard TU comes with a wide range of adjustable Time Delay Bands, ranging from a minimum of 25ms (clears in 80ms, 55ms for Sensing, Operating and Clearing Time) to 417ms (clears in 472ms).
http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/DET-653B?TNR...|DET-653B|generic
Although FR-language material generally uses "plage", I did find this example:
Les Micrologic P et H intègrent, dans le microprocesseur, les différentes courbes de type IDMTL. Ces courbes de pente variable s’emploient pour améliorer :
b la sélectivité avec des fusibles placés en amont (HT) du disjoncteur de puissance
b la coordination avec les relais de protection moyenne tension qui peuvent être de type IDMTL
b la protection d'applications spécifiques.
Cinq pentes sont proposées :
b temps constant (ou Definite time DT)
b temps inverse standard (ou Standard inverse time SIT), courbe en i0,5 t
b temps très inverse (Very inverse time VIT), courbe en it
b temps extrêmement inverse (Extremely inverse time EIT), courbe en I²t
b temps compatible fusible HT ou (High voltage fuse HVF), courbe en i4 t
La pente est calculée selon la formule :
...
Tr = cran de temporisation
b = type de courbe DT, SIT, VIT, EIT, HVF
http://www.engineering.schneider-electric.ma/Attachments/ed/...
The Micrologic P and H include in the microprocessor the various IDMTL type curves. These curves of variable slope are used to enhance:
b discrimination with fuses placed upstream (HV) of the power circuit-breaker
b co-ordination with the MV protection relays that may be of the IDMTL type
b protection of specific applications.
Five slopes are proposed:
b definite Time DT
b standard inverse time SIT, curve in i0.5t
b very inverse time VIT, curve in it
b extremely inverse time EIT, curve in l2t
b high voltage fuse HVF, curve in i4t
The slope is calculated as per the formula:
...
Tr = time delay band
B = type of curve DT, SIT, VIT, EIT, HVF
http://www.engineering.schneider-electric.dk/Attachments/ed/...
Re your "kinks" suggestion - In a different context, ArcGIS software refers to "effet cran" or "jog effect":
Effet Cran - L'effet Cran crée une ligne dynamique avec un cran ayant un angle, une position et une largeur spécifiés dans la ligne.
http://help.arcgis.com/fr/arcgisdesktop/10.0/pdf/whats_new_i...
Jog Effect - The Jog effect creates a dynamic line with a jog of specified angle, position, and width in the line.
http://help.arcgis.com/en/arcgisdesktop/10.0/pdf/whats_new_i...
"Band" or "band setting" is something else that comes up, e.g.:
Short-Time I2T Band - Select the Short-Time I2T band setting from drop-down list. The Short-Time I2T band has two settings, i.e. IN and OUT, the default being set to OUT. The IN setting shifts the Short-Time band curve inward (sloped line) and the OUT setting shifts the Short-Time band curve outward (L-shaped).
http://ftp.softhome.com.tw/files/3/10443_kl2ui7hi7ty3hj5_81....
or
Short Time Bands
The EntelliGuard TU comes with a wide range of adjustable Time Delay Bands, ranging from a minimum of 25ms (clears in 80ms, 55ms for Sensing, Operating and Clearing Time) to 417ms (clears in 472ms).
http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/DET-653B?TNR...|DET-653B|generic
Although FR-language material generally uses "plage", I did find this example:
Les Micrologic P et H intègrent, dans le microprocesseur, les différentes courbes de type IDMTL. Ces courbes de pente variable s’emploient pour améliorer :
b la sélectivité avec des fusibles placés en amont (HT) du disjoncteur de puissance
b la coordination avec les relais de protection moyenne tension qui peuvent être de type IDMTL
b la protection d'applications spécifiques.
Cinq pentes sont proposées :
b temps constant (ou Definite time DT)
b temps inverse standard (ou Standard inverse time SIT), courbe en i0,5 t
b temps très inverse (Very inverse time VIT), courbe en it
b temps extrêmement inverse (Extremely inverse time EIT), courbe en I²t
b temps compatible fusible HT ou (High voltage fuse HVF), courbe en i4 t
La pente est calculée selon la formule :
...
Tr = cran de temporisation
b = type de courbe DT, SIT, VIT, EIT, HVF
http://www.engineering.schneider-electric.ma/Attachments/ed/...
The Micrologic P and H include in the microprocessor the various IDMTL type curves. These curves of variable slope are used to enhance:
b discrimination with fuses placed upstream (HV) of the power circuit-breaker
b co-ordination with the MV protection relays that may be of the IDMTL type
b protection of specific applications.
Five slopes are proposed:
b definite Time DT
b standard inverse time SIT, curve in i0.5t
b very inverse time VIT, curve in it
b extremely inverse time EIT, curve in l2t
b high voltage fuse HVF, curve in i4t
The slope is calculated as per the formula:
...
Tr = time delay band
B = type of curve DT, SIT, VIT, EIT, HVF
http://www.engineering.schneider-electric.dk/Attachments/ed/...
Note from asker:
| Brilliant, Alison, thank you <i>so</i> much for spending your valuable time researching this for me while I've been sweating over the other 9,999 words! I feel sure you've hit the nail on the head here, and I shall now be able to wrap this job up quickly and send it off in good time. |
Discussion
For me, the 'notch' is actually just a new point on a graph which drags the original line away (like 'itinerary' on Google maps when you reroute part of your journey)
I guess