French term
courant accostant/décostant
2 | onshore/offshore | Nikki Scott-Despaigne |
3 +2 | on berth/off berth currents | Michael GREEN |
3 +1 | current when docking / undocking | FoundInTrans |
3 | rising and falling tidal currents | Jack Sims |
A bit of research .... | Michael GREEN |
Jan 6, 2013 23:56: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "courant accostant/decostant" to "courant accostant/décostant"
Proposed translations
onshore/offshore
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Note added at 41 mins (2013-01-03 12:30:49 GMT)
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As in "côte" for "coast" and "a/dé" for "on/off", thus "onshore/offshore".
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Note added at 44 mins (2013-01-03 12:34:05 GMT)
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http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/sea/swces/products/publicatio...
OFFSHORE CURRENTS: (1) Currents outside the SURF ZONE. (2) Any current flowing away from the SHORE. See Figure 7.
OFFSHORE WIND: A wind blowing seaward from the land in the coastal area.
ONSHORE: A direction landward from the SEA.
ONSHORE CURRENT: Any current flowing towards the SHORE.
ONSHORE WIND: A wind blowing landward from the SEA.
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Note added at 48 mins (2013-01-03 12:38:24 GMT)
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Onshore/offshore are used in VO texts in French in surfing, kitesurfing etc and are even to be found in erudite FR language doctoral sources :
http://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/32/11/80/PDF/These-C...
p124 : "Les directions du courant sont onshore sur le platier récifal et traduisent une entrée d’eau continue pour toutes les phases de marée. Ce courant onshore peut également être influencé par la brise de mer qui pousse les masses d’eau en direction de la côte, justifiant ainsi les vitesses plus élevées
enregistrées la journée. La nuit, avec une légère brise de terre, les courants conservent leur orientation onshore avec cependant une intensité plus faible."
p126 : "Ce courant offshore au niveau du platier récifal est également observé en marée de mortes-eaux (non illustrées ici), avec des renversements onshore à la moitié de la marée montante ainsi que pour l’étale de marée haute. Les vitesses du courant sur le platier récifal en mortes-eaux sont beaucoup plus
faibles, de l’ordre de 5 cm.s-1 en moyenne, avec des maximums enregistrés à 20 cm.s-1
."
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Note added at 50 mins (2013-01-03 12:40:07 GMT)
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I used to surf and on the Quiberon coast, even 20 years ago, it was common to talk about "du onshore, du offshore" for wind and currents. If this reading fits your context, then I think you may have a possible solution for "accostant/décostant".
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Note added at 51 mins (2013-01-03 12:41:27 GMT)
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, given that "accoster" means to arrive from the sea and "décoster" to leave the coast/shore.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-03 14:03:08 GMT)
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When it comes to berthing manoeuvres, if you are are prepared to accept a link between "courant" and "vent accostant/décostant", as I have suggested throughout, then this may help : http://www.traitedemanoeuvre.fr/principes man quai_site.swf
Take a look in particular at the animations with the terms of reference.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-03 14:08:44 GMT)
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When it comes to berthing manoeuvres, if you are are prepared to accept a link between "courant" and "vent accostant/décostant", as I have suggested throughout, then this may help : http://www.traitedemanoeuvre.fr/principes man quai_site.swf
Take a look in particular at the animations with the terms of reference.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-03 14:19:00 GMT)
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Guide des termes de marine, petit dictionnaire thématique de marine, Le Chasse-Marée/Ar Men, p90 :
"accoster : accoster à quai, c'est venir le long d'un quai ou d'un autre bateau; accoster la terre, c'est s'en rapprocher".
Adopting the second definition, accepting that its opposite may be "décoster", then "onshore/offshore" work. Accostant/décostant are not used commonly. In context, without further examples, or examples in more detailed situations, I see no other reading as possible.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2013-01-03 17:27:43 GMT)
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ON-BERTH/OFF-BERTH - vs - ONSHORE/OFFSHORE
There is no disagreement with the meaning of "accostant/décostant", to/from the shore. However, the choice of term is a little less clear.
On the one hand, the terms "on-berth/off-berth" exist (for wind and thus for currents). The only source I can track down for those terms is the one Australian one Michael refers too and it appears to be a perfectly sound reference. Further, also in favour of these terms is that they are apparently rare, with one or two hits on Google. That is also the case for "accostant/décostant", one or two with current and quite a few more for wind. If the rarity factor is of the essence, then it may be a good choice.
On the other hand, notwithstanding the rarity factor, in my experience, limited to a couple of years spent working in French/English department of a Luxembourg shipping mutual and over 20 years of translating maritime and nautical documents, in such contexts, "onshore" and "offshore" are totally standard terms when describing berthing manoeuvres. Whilst this can be an argument in favour of on/offshore, the opposite point of view can be justified. The fact that they are standard means they are perhaps not suitable for the terms posted.
There are arguments in support of both sets of terms. Target audience will come into it. I think it helpful for future reference that both sets of terms appear.
current when docking / undocking
agree |
Michael GREEN
: Although your suggestion might be capable of improvement, I think you have grasped the essential: we're talking about currents which intervene during docking - "positive or negative docking currents" (not a maritime term, AFAIK!).
43 mins
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neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I agree this is a possible reading, but without more context, I have considered that another reading is possible. See post below.
46 mins
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rising and falling tidal currents
I'd need some more context to be 100%.
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Note added at 20 mins (2013-01-03 12:09:41 GMT)
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*a and de
on berth/off berth currents
What applies to winds may also be applied to currents, IMHO.
"...There are then 2 basic situations : On-Berth wind where the wind is pushing the craft towards the berth and the opposite Off-Berth wind..."
neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Complies with my reading of this one but on/offshore are more common.//On/offshore are std terms for wind + currents when berthing + mooring, understood w/wide, not the case for on/off berth. ProZ reconfig for typing : time to drop the subject now.
24 mins
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But my dear Nikki, "shore" (on or off) is a general term, and here we are talking about berthing vessels in ports, so a more specific term is surely appropriate. Glad to see your typing has improved, BTW ;-)
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agree |
FoundInTrans
: Sweet ~;-) It could equally mean that.
39 mins
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Thank you. We aim to please ...:-)
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agree |
Graham macLachlan
: sounds good to me, sweetie ! LOL
2 hrs
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Hello sailor! Thank you for the "Agree" - as you are the most experienced bilingual matelot on Proz, I am grateful for your support ...
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Reference comments
A bit of research ....
I think Asker might consider turning the phrase round a little, e.g. " currents tending to drive the vessel towards the berth or off it...".
Or simply, "on-berth or off-berth currents"?
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Note added at 1 hr (2013-01-03 13:20:58 GMT)
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A little more research comes up with "on-berth/off-berth wind":
"...There are then 2 basic situations : On-Berth wind where the wind is pushing the craft towards the berth and the opposite Off-Berth wind."
http://marinewatchnsw.com/library/mooring.html
I suggest that the same term can be applied to currents (which, as the article points out, are less often a problem when berthing except when combined with wind).
" ....L'évitage continue, par un vent assez fort, parfois accostant, parfois décostant selon les sautes. Souvent le SAINT DENIS tire à pleine puissance pour écarter le cul du coin du quai....
Discussion
I see you are as quick on the uptake as ever - but no, I don't eat sugar (I'm sweet enough).
But this has nowt to do with the question!
So you can retain your "when".
Nice pun ...
;-)
Could you post a couple of examples from your text. A broader context helps situate the finer detail.
Nikki