Jan 3, 2013 11:49
11 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

courant accostant/décostant

French to English Science Ships, Sailing, Maritime Sea
The use of accostant/decostant comes up repeatedly in my text relating to shipping, and in particular port facilities, berthing, etc., but I can't find a translation anywhere. Used in such phrases as "courant accostant ou decostant inférieur a 0.6 noeuds"
Change log

Jan 6, 2013 23:56: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "courant accostant/decostant" to "courant accostant/décostant"

Discussion

Michael GREEN Jan 3, 2013:
@ Nikki I'm back earlier than expected.
I see you are as quick on the uptake as ever - but no, I don't eat sugar (I'm sweet enough).
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 3, 2013:
Get the drift... ha ha ha! Sweet exchange folks. Too much sugar over Christmas?
Michael GREEN Jan 3, 2013:
Quite so! And I'm going out now, anyway. Won't be back this evening. Bonne continuation à toutes et à tous ...
FoundInTrans Jan 3, 2013:
@Lol I think we'll take this off-line Michael.
Michael GREEN Jan 3, 2013:
@ Wortschmidt Re your last comment: I'm just nitpicking, but a sea as flat as a millpond can still have a huge current (the Aldernay Tide Race, which I have to cross whenever I want to sail anywhere interesting from Cherbourg, can be quite flat even when running at 10 knots if there's no wind).
But this has nowt to do with the question!
FoundInTrans Jan 3, 2013:
@MG Indeed that is the entirety of the scenario in any case since a current of 0.0 noeuds respresenting a mill pond would still be a measurement of current which is the context.
Michael GREEN Jan 3, 2013:
@ Wortschmidt IMHO, the current is not so much "doing the docking / undocking" as INFLUENCING the docking (a "courant accostant" will help if the ship is berthing, but would be a hindrance if the poor old skipper is trying to leave port, and inversely).
So you can retain your "when".
Nice pun ...
FoundInTrans Jan 3, 2013:
In that case Amy I would either go back to the agency or similar if you can with a query or use a safe approximate such as docking/undocking current. I am now persuaded to remove the "when" from my effort since it may thanks to Nikki and Michael also mean that the current is doing the docking / undocking by its direction rather than the skipper alone if you get my drift. Ouch terrible pun ...
Michael GREEN Jan 3, 2013:
@ Wortschmidt Thank you - my suggestions have occasionally been applauded, sometimes criticised, and occasionally ignored, but this is the first time my contribution has been qualified as "sweet"!
;-)
Amy Grieve (asker) Jan 3, 2013:
No context Hi, thanks for all your responses! Unfortunately there is no further context - the example I gave appears several times, and the only other times the words appear is in tables under the heading "courant"...
FoundInTrans Jan 3, 2013:
Agreed in that only context will solve this. I always work with what context has been given which can result in more approximate translations than the full context which we rarely get on here. Nice work Michael, on-berth and off-berth is "sweet" if that is indeed the context.
Michael GREEN Jan 3, 2013:
@ Asker "The use of accostant/décostant comes up repeatedly in my text ": as Nikki points out, some more context would help, but do the terms appear in connection with winds as well ("vent décostant" etc)?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 3, 2013:
Sample extracts Hello Amy,
Could you post a couple of examples from your text. A broader context helps situate the finer detail.
Nikki

Proposed translations

39 mins
French term (edited): courant accostant/decostant
Selected

onshore/offshore

Very low confidence level, but based on a more common usage of "vent accostant", an onshore wind. might this fit the context?

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Note added at 41 mins (2013-01-03 12:30:49 GMT)
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As in "côte" for "coast" and "a/dé" for "on/off", thus "onshore/offshore".

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Note added at 44 mins (2013-01-03 12:34:05 GMT)
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http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/sea/swces/products/publicatio...

OFFSHORE CURRENTS: (1) Currents outside the SURF ZONE. (2) Any current flowing away from the SHORE. See Figure 7.

OFFSHORE WIND: A wind blowing seaward from the land in the coastal area.

ONSHORE: A direction landward from the SEA.

ONSHORE CURRENT: Any current flowing towards the SHORE.

ONSHORE WIND: A wind blowing landward from the SEA.

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Note added at 48 mins (2013-01-03 12:38:24 GMT)
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Onshore/offshore are used in VO texts in French in surfing, kitesurfing etc and are even to be found in erudite FR language doctoral sources :

http://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/32/11/80/PDF/These-C...

p124 : "Les directions du courant sont onshore sur le platier récifal et traduisent une entrée d’eau continue pour toutes les phases de marée. Ce courant onshore peut également être influencé par la brise de mer qui pousse les masses d’eau en direction de la côte, justifiant ainsi les vitesses plus élevées
enregistrées la journée. La nuit, avec une légère brise de terre, les courants conservent leur orientation onshore avec cependant une intensité plus faible."

p126 : "Ce courant offshore au niveau du platier récifal est également observé en marée de mortes-eaux (non illustrées ici), avec des renversements onshore à la moitié de la marée montante ainsi que pour l’étale de marée haute. Les vitesses du courant sur le platier récifal en mortes-eaux sont beaucoup plus
faibles, de l’ordre de 5 cm.s-1 en moyenne, avec des maximums enregistrés à 20 cm.s-1
."

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Note added at 50 mins (2013-01-03 12:40:07 GMT)
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I used to surf and on the Quiberon coast, even 20 years ago, it was common to talk about "du onshore, du offshore" for wind and currents. If this reading fits your context, then I think you may have a possible solution for "accostant/décostant".

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Note added at 51 mins (2013-01-03 12:41:27 GMT)
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, given that "accoster" means to arrive from the sea and "décoster" to leave the coast/shore.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-03 14:03:08 GMT)
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When it comes to berthing manoeuvres, if you are are prepared to accept a link between "courant" and "vent accostant/décostant", as I have suggested throughout, then this may help : http://www.traitedemanoeuvre.fr/principes man quai_site.swf

Take a look in particular at the animations with the terms of reference.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-03 14:08:44 GMT)
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When it comes to berthing manoeuvres, if you are are prepared to accept a link between "courant" and "vent accostant/décostant", as I have suggested throughout, then this may help : http://www.traitedemanoeuvre.fr/principes man quai_site.swf

Take a look in particular at the animations with the terms of reference.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-03 14:19:00 GMT)
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Guide des termes de marine, petit dictionnaire thématique de marine, Le Chasse-Marée/Ar Men, p90 :

"accoster : accoster à quai, c'est venir le long d'un quai ou d'un autre bateau; accoster la terre, c'est s'en rapprocher".

Adopting the second definition, accepting that its opposite may be "décoster", then "onshore/offshore" work. Accostant/décostant are not used commonly. In context, without further examples, or examples in more detailed situations, I see no other reading as possible.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2013-01-03 17:27:43 GMT)
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ON-BERTH/OFF-BERTH - vs - ONSHORE/OFFSHORE

There is no disagreement with the meaning of "accostant/décostant", to/from the shore. However, the choice of term is a little less clear.

On the one hand, the terms "on-berth/off-berth" exist (for wind and thus for currents). The only source I can track down for those terms is the one Australian one Michael refers too and it appears to be a perfectly sound reference. Further, also in favour of these terms is that they are apparently rare, with one or two hits on Google. That is also the case for "accostant/décostant", one or two with current and quite a few more for wind. If the rarity factor is of the essence, then it may be a good choice.

On the other hand, notwithstanding the rarity factor, in my experience, limited to a couple of years spent working in French/English department of a Luxembourg shipping mutual and over 20 years of translating maritime and nautical documents, in such contexts, "onshore" and "offshore" are totally standard terms when describing berthing manoeuvres. Whilst this can be an argument in favour of on/offshore, the opposite point of view can be justified. The fact that they are standard means they are perhaps not suitable for the terms posted.

There are arguments in support of both sets of terms. Target audience will come into it. I think it helpful for future reference that both sets of terms appear.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you - this worked well for me :-)"
+1
12 mins
French term (edited): courant accostant/decostant

current when docking / undocking

I can't find an expression as exact as the French.
Peer comment(s):

agree Michael GREEN : Although your suggestion might be capable of improvement, I think you have grasped the essential: we're talking about currents which intervene during docking - "positive or negative docking currents" (not a maritime term, AFAIK!).
43 mins
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I agree this is a possible reading, but without more context, I have considered that another reading is possible. See post below.
46 mins
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18 mins
French term (edited): courant accostant/decostant

rising and falling tidal currents

As the translation of accoster is to land or dock, by extrapolation, I suggest that there's a reference to tidal currents here (inward and outward, up and down, a and <a>de.
I'd need some more context to be 100%.

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Note added at 20 mins (2013-01-03 12:09:41 GMT)
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*a and de
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+2
1 hr
French term (edited): courant accostant/decostant

on berth/off berth currents

See my reference posting below.

What applies to winds may also be applied to currents, IMHO.
Example sentence:

"...There are then 2 basic situations : On-Berth wind where the wind is pushing the craft towards the berth and the opposite Off-Berth wind..."

Peer comment(s):

neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Complies with my reading of this one but on/offshore are more common.//On/offshore are std terms for wind + currents when berthing + mooring, understood w/wide, not the case for on/off berth. ProZ reconfig for typing : time to drop the subject now.
24 mins
But my dear Nikki, "shore" (on or off) is a general term, and here we are talking about berthing vessels in ports, so a more specific term is surely appropriate. Glad to see your typing has improved, BTW ;-)
agree FoundInTrans : Sweet ~;-) It could equally mean that.
39 mins
Thank you. We aim to please ...:-)
agree Graham macLachlan : sounds good to me, sweetie ! LOL
2 hrs
Hello sailor! Thank you for the "Agree" - as you are the most experienced bilingual matelot on Proz, I am grateful for your support ...
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Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

A bit of research ....

Very few web hits, but the few I have found are all related to winds or currents which push the vessel to the quai/pontoon or away from it.

I think Asker might consider turning the phrase round a little, e.g. " currents tending to drive the vessel towards the berth or off it...".
Or simply, "on-berth or off-berth currents"?

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-01-03 13:20:58 GMT)
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A little more research comes up with "on-berth/off-berth wind":
"...There are then 2 basic situations : On-Berth wind where the wind is pushing the craft towards the berth and the opposite Off-Berth wind."

http://marinewatchnsw.com/library/mooring.html

I suggest that the same term can be applied to currents (which, as the article points out, are less often a problem when berthing except when combined with wind).
Example sentence:

" ....L'évitage continue, par un vent assez fort, parfois accostant, parfois décostant selon les sautes. Souvent le SAINT DENIS tire à pleine puissance pour écarter le cul du coin du quai....

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