Nov 28, 2013 10:25
10 yrs ago
Russian term

увещевать по зубам

Russian to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
This is from Gogol's Нос

... в ту же почти минуту Ковалев слышал уже голос его на улице, где он увещевал по зубам одного глупого мужика, наехавшего с своею телегою как раз на бульвар.

Discussion

katerina turevich Nov 29, 2013:
It basically means that as long as you replicate this in English, you are spot-on. It’s quite possible, if not easy to make up a sentence like that. Say : “could hear him pontificating on the guilt of the poor peasant, who had the misfortune to drive his cart up the sidewalk, supporting his arguments with a certain measure of punches in the jaw.” Or: “could hear him growl through his teeth, while using long/highbrow words to express his anger to the poor peasant who had the bad luck…” You got the idea
Personally, I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting to come up with an alternative translation if you think the ones available are not that good. Although I think Ronald Wilks did his best and what came out is quite acceptable. Short and powerful.
katerina turevich Nov 29, 2013:
I'd like to point out that this exact word combination, but also similar ones are used in speech and even in writing. Some examples: “Если будем едины мы, то сможем их увещевать по наводке полиции, так как живем и работаем рядом с ними. ‘http://vol1oleg.livejournal.com/1693840.html?thread=9090192 - No light humor or sarcasm here ever intended.
“Такого же, который живет по своей воле, ради покоя телесного, а не ради душевной пользы, надлежит увещевать по временам, ради Хотящаго всем… Christian Orthodox text http://www.pagez.ru/lsn/vi/588.php
The problem, the incongruity of this phrase is in the following: Микширование контекстов (в том числе, сочетание слов из разных семантических зон, например - гоголевское "увещевать по зубам", где "увещевать=уговаривать" - высокое, книжное, мягкое, а "по зубам" - просторечное, грубое, агрессивное). http://www.litportal.ru/forum/8/topic17098.html
Rachel Douglas Nov 28, 2013:
@Danya Thanks for this interesting comment, and I'm not really praising those translators, only pointing out that there are probably half a dozen published attempts in existence. And we don't know why the asker wants an English translation - just to quote it, or because she thinks all existing translations are bad and seeks a new one? Anyway, I also didn't mean to imply that "увещевать по зубам" was a Russian idiom, only that English translators had themselves used idioms and other tricks to try to capture this. Not too successfully, I agree. In fact, at least one often republished translation (maybe Constance Garnett's?) of "Нос" evidently SKIPPED THIS PARAGRAPH altogether! The way you characterize the turn of phrase seems very typical of Gogol's prose, don't you think? He'll appear to be describing something quite ordinary, but it will come across as startling or grotesque in some way. The story "Невский проспект" is like that, and of course "Нос" itself. I think people who try to translate Gogol are very brave.
danya Nov 28, 2013:
too long for a comment) @Rachel: the approach is sound) but neither version even tries to convey the source. увещевать по зубам is not a ready idiom, it's a blend made by Gogol. увещевать can usually take a direct object like увещевать кого-то, but another object, let alone indirect, is unexpected and creates a humourous/ironic effect.

Proposed translations

+6
5 mins
Selected

was trying to talk sense into (...) by knocking his teeth in

I'm sure there are lots of ways to say the above in more natural English, but that's what it is basically about ))

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Note added at 9 mins (2013-11-28 10:35:34 GMT)
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... and (...) might be replaced with either 'some silly/mindless/stupid peasant' or even with 'some dumb muzhik'... it depends, I guess.
Peer comment(s):

agree interprivate
1 min
Спасибо!
agree Jack Doughty
32 mins
Thank you!
agree Dilshod Madolimov
1 hr
Thank you!
agree Tatyana Osyka
3 hrs
Thank you!
agree Tatiana Lammers
11 hrs
Thank you!
agree cyhul
3 days 15 hrs
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for your help. I'll not use your exact words but words to that effect, trying to express both a verbal reprimand ( after all Kovalyov hears his voice) together with a punch in the teeth. A tricky combination but then Gogol is a huge challenge for the translator!"
-1
21 mins

read notations by hands

.

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Note added at 24 хвилин (2013-11-28 10:50:17 GMT)
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Растечения русской мысли по древу не переводятся :)
Peer comment(s):

disagree Susan Welsh : This is not English. Plus only one "answer" is allowed.
3 hrs
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+2
3 hrs

box the ears (c) David Magarshack

"The Nose" has been translated lots of times, so why don't you look at which English idioms or other expressions were used in the published translations?

David Magarshack: "Kovalyov heard his voice raised in the street, where he was boxing the ears of a foolish peasant who had happened to drive with his cart onto the boulevard."

Ronald Wilks: "... went out into the street, where Kovalyov could hear him telling some stupid peasant who had driven his cart up on the pavement what he thought of him."

Well, Magarshack's "drive with his cart" as against "drive his cart" is grating, but that's not what you're asking about.
Peer comment(s):

agree Olga Cartlidge : I agree that Gogol did not intend to use anything more violent than "boxing his ears"; it is a humorous tale and the tone is supposed to be light hearted.
13 mins
Thanks, Olga.
agree Natalia Volkova
4 hrs
Thanks, Natalia.
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3 hrs

"telling (him) off"/"letting (him) have it"/"went off (on him)

As already mentioned this has been translated before...

where Kovalyov could hear him telling some stupid peasant who had driven his cart up on the pavement what he thought of him.

It is definitely a judgement call as to the severity of the REPRIMAND. Given the context, I would say that it would indeed be a reprimand and not a violent outburst. Someone was angered by someone else's inconsideration. There are many idioms that fit the bill here. These are two, perhaps, more typical American collocations.
Others to considered:
Example sentence:

where Kovalyov could hear him telling some stupid peasant who had driven his cart up on the pavement what he thought of him.

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4 hrs

was knocking sense in the head of a poor country fellow

... who happened to drive his cart right onto the pavement
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14 hrs

hammer in the jaw

Matt, mouth bleeding profusely and one eye nearly swollen shut, struck back at Kelley, hammering him repeatedly in the jaw with his bloodied ...
lilyjack.blogspot.com/.../growing-old-with-kitty...
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