KudoZ question not available

English translation: planning shambles

19:36 Mar 14, 2015

German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics

German term or phrase: Planungsruine

The text is an article in the field of organizational sociology that discusses the phenomenon of specialists who are out of touch with the needs of users creating systems that fail to correspond to those needs. The consequence is that considerable resources are sunk into "solutions" that are ultimately never used. This outcome is referred to as "Planungsruine."

Does anybody have a suggestion?

I greatly appreciate your help! Thanks!

Stephan Elkins KudoZ activity Questions: 38 (none open) (1 without valid answers) (6 closed without grading) Answers: 110 United States
Local time: 23:59

English translation:planning shambles

Explanation:
I don't know why everyone is steering clear of Planung = Planning

Motorists have hit out over a planning shambles by the Isle of Wight’s PFI contractors Island Roads
http://www.islandecho.co.uk/news/motorists-anger-planning-sh...

they see the council gravy train wasting public money, and now, just as a couple of years ago with the Housing Division shambles we’ve got a planning shambles.
http://westlancashirerecord.com/2013/01/13/the-weekly-interv...

Lets be honest, the whole area is a planning shambles. The houses and flats are built on top of each other with barely enough space for the sun to shine through.
http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/petition_as_residents...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2015-03-15 02:21:05 GMT)
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Inspired by David's contribution:
money down the drain
(The consequence is that considerable resources are sunk into "solutions" that are ultimately never used.)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=project *...

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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2015-03-16 16:31:34 GMT) Post-grading
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!) Thanks. I'm not sure that 'botched' would be my choice here. To me, this adjective suggests that the project has gone so severely wrong that it represents a health and safety risk to the public and must be either removed or demolished. From your description, I supposed that the projects involved were simply written off and abandoned.
2) I think that, rather than some combination of adjective + planning, you should stick with the German word order: Planungs- + noun > planning + noun.
Just my opinion...

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Note added at 1 day21 hrs (2015-03-16 16:37:23 GMT) Post-grading
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i.e. rather than failed planning, planning failure or failure of planning

By coincidence, I just clicked on the Daily Mail site and found this example of 'botched' in the generally accepted sense:
Couple's dream home collapsed into rubble because of botched basement dig
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997163/Couple-s-dre...

Selected response from:

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:59

Grading comment

Thank you all for your help! I truly appreciate it. I'll probably go with something along the lines of "failed/botched planning" (thanks Donald!) since it fits the sentence best, but this is the runner-up.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +7

planning shambles

Lancashireman

3 +3

castles in the sand

Ramey Rieger (X)

white elephant

Inter-Tra

predictable failure

Donald Jacobson

architectural shipwreck

Michael Martin, MA

(complete) design failure

Steffen Walter

good money thrown after bad in planning terms

David Hollywood

Discussion entries: 8

Stephan Elkins

United States

ASKER

Context

17:44 Mar 15, 2015

First of all, you are right about the comma. Sorry about that. As far as context is concerned, the author speaks of "Planungsruinen" in general. It could refer to any number of things, ranging from software that doesn't fit the tasks that employees are expected to perform to airports built in regions where there is only insufficient demand for air travel (which seems to be quite popular in Germany). Planungsruine thus refers to any "botched planning" of this kind, as Donald nicely put it. There is no other context than that. Thanks for all your suggestions!

Steffen Walter

Germany

I agree, Ramey

15:43 Mar 15, 2015

I think you are right regarding the comma.

Ramey Rieger (X)

Germany

I am apt

13:35 Mar 15, 2015

to place a comma after users, as the users do not create the systems that do not correspond to their needs.

Lancashireman

United Kingdom

Question classification (see above)

13:26 Mar 15, 2015

Social Sciences - Government / Politics

Steffen Walter

Germany

No, Phil ...

13:17 Mar 15, 2015

... to be honest, you are not the only one :-)

That said, Stephan did provide a 'snippet' of context by mentioning 'specialists who are out of touch with the needs of users creating systems that fail to correspond to those needs', so we can safely rule out bridges, airports or other architectural/construction disasters. Sounds like software to me but a piece of German source (con)text wouldn't go amiss.

BrigitteHilgner

Austria

Gibt es Beispiele?

07:13 Mar 15, 2015

Genau wie Phil Goddard fehlt mir Kontext. Spontan (ohne Kontext) finde ich "castles in the sand" völlig unpassend, "planning shambles" gefällt mir besser, aber es ist mir (so wie ich die Erklärung empfinde) zu allgemein. Geht es hier um die berühmten Brücken, die einsam in der Landschaft stehen, weil die Straßen zu ihnen nie gebaut werden, um Flughäfen in der Provinz, die niemand braucht oder etwas anderes?

Donald Jacobson

United States

botched planning

04:25 Mar 15, 2015

may be more common in US

philgoddard

United States

03:37 Mar 15, 2015

Is nobody interested in the German context? I am.

Answers

8 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

castles in the sand

Explanation:
burst bubbles
chimera
phantom utopia

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Note added at 14 mins (2015-03-14 19:51:33 GMT)
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Strongly ironical are:
reality check
ivory tower complex

The school system in Germany is one highly demonstrative example.

Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Local time: 23:59
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you all for your help! I truly appreciate it.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Diana Obermeyer: haha, yeah reality bites... not long back from the beach and definitely liking your main answer. Disagree about the school system though - at least they don't try to send everyone half-wit to university as we do here in the UK!

18 mins

-> Hi Diana! No, they just try and force all the kids into one scheme. Probably just as damaging to the future of the world, though. When will we get some FARSIGHTED people in power?

agree

Danik 2014: In regard to school systems...I´d rather not talk about our system! :(

53 mins

-> Let's not and say we did. Have a good Sunday Danik!

agree

Usch Pilz: Let's go to the beach. And don't get me started on the school system here in the southwestern parts ...

11 hrs

-> I won't, I promise, unless of course we have a way to change things. Take care, Lady!

28 mins confidence:

architectural shipwreck

Explanation:
We all have seen them but don't always agree on what constitutes one..

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 17:59
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in category: 76

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you all for your help! I truly appreciate it.

1 hr confidence:

(complete) design failure

Explanation:
I think Ramey's suggestions are great, but I was just wondering if the above could work, too (these 'specialists' designed solutions that were a complete failure, as it were).

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-03-14 21:11:00 GMT)
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failure by design

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 23:59
Works in field
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 149

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you all for your help! I truly appreciate it.

1 hr confidence:

predictable failure

Explanation:
The Predictable Failure of Educational Reform: Can ... - Amazon.com
www.amazon.com › ... › History
Rating: 4 - ‎2 reviews
Mobile-friendly - The Predictable Failure of Educational Reform: Can We Change Course Before It's Too Late [Seymour B. Sarason] on ...

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-03-14 21:10:42 GMT)
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Wade Davis: The War on Drugs Is a Predictable Failure
www.thedailybell.com/.../Anthony-Wile-...
Mobile-friendly - Jan 4, 2015 - Introduction: Wade Davis is an Explorer-in-Residence at the National Geographic Society, named as ...

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-03-14 21:12:10 GMT)
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The 6 Predictable Failures of Free Schools... and How to Avoid ...
www.amazon.co.uk/Predictable-Failures...
Mobile-friendly - Buy The 6 Predictable Failures of Free Schools... and How to Avoid Them by Laura McInerney, Loic Menzies (ISBN: ...

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-03-14 21:18:53 GMT)
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Seymour Sarason - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Sarason
Mobile-friendly - Sarason, S.B. (1990). The Predictable Failure of Educational Reform: Can We Change Course Before It's Too Late?

Donald Jacobson
United States
Local time: 16:59
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you all for your help! I truly appreciate it.

6 hrs confidence:

good money thrown after bad in planning terms

Explanation:
the idea

David Hollywood
Local time: 18:59
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 59

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you all for your help! I truly appreciate it.

1 day 4 hrs confidence:

white elephant

Explanation:
this idiom might be very appropriate..

Reference: http://books.google.it/books?id=BczNrTH0zBsC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA...

Inter-Tra
Italy
Local time: 23:59
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Italian

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you all for your help! I truly appreciate it.

3 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +7

planning shambles

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:59
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 208

Grading comment

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