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Mar 25, 2015 09:47
9 yrs ago
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Russian term

было в три раза меньше заявок

Russian to English Bus/Financial General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
В прошлом году заявок о предоставлении политического убежища было в три раза меньше
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 Just reverse the subject: the number of applications has tripled compared to last year
4 there were three times fewer political asylum applicants last year
3 -2 there were three times less aplications (requests)
References
три раза - This has been discussed before
previous discussion

Discussion

Evgeny Artemov (X) Mar 25, 2015:
Sure, context rules supreme. Come on, man, it'll be to late to advise anything to the writer.
Seriously, suppose it's followed by: "Тогда это объяснялось тем, что, во-первых ... " Ну и так далее в ту же сторону. Утроение забыто, и на него забито. С современных авторов станется, чо.
(Я вообще всегда от последующего -- в том числе "дальнего" -- контекста подлянки жду; сколько раз приходилось потом, "по вновь открывшимся обстоятельствам" целые куски заново переделывать.)
Mikhail Kropotov Mar 25, 2015:
Oh, right, let's live in the past :)
I would advise that writer to take a writing class, or maybe quit the profession altogether.

P.S. Obviously I'm not saying my solution covers all contexts. Context is king.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Mar 25, 2015:
Good idea, perhaps, if the subsequent context carries it. If the writer rambles on explaining the reasons behind fewer applications LAST year (instead of reasons behind the triplication THIS year), then the triplication will stand out like a sore thumb. ;-)
Mikhail Kropotov Mar 25, 2015:
I've offered a different solution that I think is quite elegant. Please take a look and let me know what you think.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Mar 25, 2015:
That's odd. I see 331 ghits and would rather join the 300+ crowd who seem to think that writing three times fewer (or three times anything, for that matter) isn't hoary at all. ;-)
(Yeah, I have my own idiosyncratic dislikes in language too. I hate the word conformance, for example.)
Rachel Douglas Mar 25, 2015:
See previous In the previous discussion I linked to, there's an exchange between me and Judi Hehir, about how impossible it is for a native English-speaker to wrap his mind around "times less/fewer." If you say three times greater than x, it's obvious, because you think of x as 1 and three times that is 3. But expressing division by "times" does not work. I guess it's because "1 time" sounds like the unit x, so if, say x = 100, then "1 time less" must be zero. And then, how on earth could you zero it out 3 times? That's just one example of the mental contortions one tries to go through, on this. It's that "reduced 3 times" doesn't sound in English like it has anything to do with "divided by 3."
Susan Welsh Mar 25, 2015:
see the reference in my post, and the references in that reference, for what David Knowles calls the "hoary old question," and you will see native speakers of English (for example, myself) trying to wrap their minds around в три раза меньше and coming out more and more confused.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Mar 25, 2015:
Ladies, exactly why won't "three times fewer" work?
Thanks in advance.

Proposed translations

+5
2 hrs
Selected

Just reverse the subject: the number of applications has tripled compared to last year

Susan and Rachel are right. Heed our advice: don't approach this head on, by find a workaround solution.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2015-03-25 12:25:54 GMT)
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sorry, 'by' should read 'but'

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Note added at 4 hrs (2015-03-25 14:37:17 GMT)
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In the (unlikely) case last year's number are being compared with numbers from two years ago... The following is possible:

Last year the number of applications dropped by two thirds.

This way you are not forced to specify what is the other side of the comparison.
BUT: this wording does NOT work for the (more likely) situation which I assumed initially, namely that this year's number are being compared with last year's.
Peer comment(s):
agree Susan Welsh : Excellent!
8 mins
Thank you, Susan!
agree Nik-On/Off
1 hr
neutral Rachel Douglas : This wd give correct meaning, only if the original says "теперь" or "в настоящий момент". Can't it mean "чем в предыдущем году"? / Not sure this year more likely, as that would need to be a rate ("per week" or whatever), not absolute number.
2 hrs
Considering the political situation around refugees (think Ukraine), that's exactly how I read it. They are comparing this year with last. I'll add another version in the body of my answer though. Well, rate = number per year. In Russian at least.
agree Mark Berelekhis
2 hrs
neutral LilianNekipelov : I would not reverse it like that. This is the meaning, but still that would be too free a translation.
5 hrs
If you cannot figure it out, I'm afraid nothing will help
agree Sergey Gorelik
5 hrs
agree cyhul
1 day 21 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Спасибо!"
-2
1 min

there were three times less aplications (requests)

---
Peer comment(s):
disagree Rachel Douglas : "Three times less" is not comprehensible in normal English, plus it would have to be "three times fewer" because applications are discrete. But neither "times less" nor "times fewer" nor "reduced by three times", etc. works, period.
14 mins
disagree Susan Welsh : agree with Rachel
16 mins
neutral LilianNekipelov : Not bad, perhaps fewer instead of less.
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

there were three times fewer political asylum applicants last year

my version.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

14 mins
Reference:

три раза - This has been discussed before

For example, here:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/russian_to_english/medical_health_...
(ignore the typo; the answer chosen, which is fine, was "reduced by two-thirds").

In your case, "applications fell by two-thirds" or "applications fell to one year of" whatever the preceding period was.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2015-03-25 10:04:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, second version was meant to be "... fell to one-third of"...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Leigh Mosley
1 hr
agree Mikhail Kropotov
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
21 mins
Reference:

previous discussion

Rachel's answer to this previous question does it for me: reduced by a factor of X

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2015-03-25 10:10:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The link isn't working. Try it here: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/russian_to_english/mining_minerals...
Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/russian_to_english/mining_minerals_gems/5759491-%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Mikhail Kropotov
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
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