Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
foreign business records
French translation:
documents d\'une entreprise étrangère
Added to glossary by
Cassandra Delacote
Oct 24, 2018 14:15
5 yrs ago
English term
foreign business records
English to French
Other
Law (general)
Law and order/ policing
Authentication of Non-Public Documents
foreign business records available on showing similar to domestic business records (must give notice of intent to offer)
Certification by records custodian
I have lifted this term out of the sentence, but in reality I have to admit that I do not really understand the whole sentence.
I have also consulted the text to which it refers 18 U.S.C. § 3505 but still...it is so cryptic
Your input at this stage would be appreciated
foreign business records available on showing similar to domestic business records (must give notice of intent to offer)
Certification by records custodian
I have lifted this term out of the sentence, but in reality I have to admit that I do not really understand the whole sentence.
I have also consulted the text to which it refers 18 U.S.C. § 3505 but still...it is so cryptic
Your input at this stage would be appreciated
Proposed translations
(French)
| 5 +2 | documents d'une entreprise étrangère |
Eliza Hall
|
Proposed translations
+2
5 hrs
Eliza Hall
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Lawyer-Translator-Certified Interpreter
Native in: English (Variants: Canadian, Irish, British, UK, US, Scottish)
Works in: French to English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
80
Selected
documents d'une entreprise étrangère
Documents d'une entreprise étrangère possibles à condition que ceux-çi fassent l'objet d'une démonstration semblable à celle exigée pour les documents d'une entreprise nationale (notification obligatoire de l'intention de les présenter)
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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-10-24 19:34:54 GMT)
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As you can see, I've put the entire translation here, not just the translation of the term requested. From your comments, it was apparent that the entire legal concept was unclear to you, so I translated it all in the hope that this would make it clear.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-10-24 19:38:00 GMT)
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PS if you prefer, you can replace "d'une démonstration semblable à celle exigée" with "de preuves semblables à celles exigées."
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Note added at 1 day 37 mins (2018-10-25 14:53:19 GMT)
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PPS the reason I put "possibles" rather than "admissibles" is because the word "admissible" wasn't used in the English text -- it says "available," which is not a legal term of art, but in context it doesn't mean "disponible" in the sense of physically available. It means such documents may be legally available for use at trial if the requisite showing is made.
Admissible isn't the right translation because admissibility depends on more than whether the showing required by rule or by 18 USC 3305 is made. That showing is required, but it's not the only issue in determining whether the docs are admissible. And that's why it doesn't say "admissible" in the English original -- because such a showing alone doesn't guarantee admissibility; it's necessary, but not sufficient.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-10-24 19:34:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As you can see, I've put the entire translation here, not just the translation of the term requested. From your comments, it was apparent that the entire legal concept was unclear to you, so I translated it all in the hope that this would make it clear.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2018-10-24 19:38:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
PS if you prefer, you can replace "d'une démonstration semblable à celle exigée" with "de preuves semblables à celles exigées."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 37 mins (2018-10-25 14:53:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
PPS the reason I put "possibles" rather than "admissibles" is because the word "admissible" wasn't used in the English text -- it says "available," which is not a legal term of art, but in context it doesn't mean "disponible" in the sense of physically available. It means such documents may be legally available for use at trial if the requisite showing is made.
Admissible isn't the right translation because admissibility depends on more than whether the showing required by rule or by 18 USC 3305 is made. That showing is required, but it's not the only issue in determining whether the docs are admissible. And that's why it doesn't say "admissible" in the English original -- because such a showing alone doesn't guarantee admissibility; it's necessary, but not sufficient.
Note from asker:
| Yes indeed Eliza, the whole legal concept was unclear to me and I am most grateful for your suggested translation and for all the comments you posted (discussion with Germaine and ph-b) which have been most helpful. I see that you are an expert in this field |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Germaine
: pour l’essentiel. Réserves: "possibles à condition que" (?); "nationale" (qui porte à interprétation ici). AMA, "démonstration" ne rend pas vraiment la notion de "showing".
3 hrs
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"On showing" means "if a showing can be made." Hence, à condition que.
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| agree |
ph-b (X)
: « Les documents d'une entreprise étrangère sont admissibles s’il peut être démontré qu’ils satisfont aux mêmes exigences que ceux d’une entreprise dont le siège social est situé aux É.-U. » Est-ce que ça marcherait ?/Great, thks!
8 hrs
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Not quite, since it's not the location of the siège social that matters but the location of the documents' custodian (the person capable of answering the questions set forth in the statute or rule on admissibility).
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much for this answer and for all the very helpful and interesting discussions"
Discussion
"Committee Notes on Rules—2000 Amendment
The amendment adds two new paragraphs to the rule on self-authentication. It sets forth a procedure by which parties can authenticate certain records of regularly conducted activity, other than through the testimony of a foundation witness. See the amendment to Rule 803(6). 18 U.S.C. §3505 currently provides a means for certifying foreign records of regularly conducted activity in criminal cases, and this amendment is intended to establish a similar procedure for domestic records, and for foreign records offered in civil cases."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_803
The reason foreign business records are subject to a slightly different evidentiary rule than domestic business records is because the usual process for authenticating business records (i.e., making the showing that they meet XYZ criteria) involves having the records custodian testify in person, either in court or under courtroom-like conditions via video, etc.
But that process is expensive and inconvenient when the custodian is in a foreign country. So, our rules allow the custodian in such cases to provide a certified writing stating that the records meet XYZ criteria, instead of testifying in person.
In a case where, say, a French company had a New York office, and the NY records custodian worked in the NY office, and those records were the ones at issue, a court in New York would follow the usual domestic rule (testimony in person). But that's unusual.
documents d’entreprises étrangères disponibles lors d’une procédure d’admission en preuve comparable à celle appliquée aux preuves documentaires d’entreprises amércaines... ?
ou
documents d’entreprises étrangères disponibles à la suite d’une procédure comparable à celle s’appliquant aux preuves documentaires d’entreprises amércaines... ?
1. A certain evidentiary showing is required in order for US business records to be admissible (i.e., shown to the jury at trial). In other words, certain facts must be shown before the judge will admit those records at trial. If you cannot show those facts, you can't "get the evidence in" (it won't be admitted, so the jury will never see it).
2. A certain evidentiary showing is required in order for the records of foreign businesses to be admissible. That showing is SIMILAR TO the evidentiary showing required for the admission of US business records. They're not covered by the same rule (as you can see from the title of 18 USC 3505, that rule is specific to foreign business records), but the rules that cover them are similar to each other. In other words, both rules have similar requirements in terms of what evidence must be shown in order for the evidence to be admissible.
Showing is a legal term: "an act or instance of establishing through evidence and argument" https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/showing.html
As for the certification, it is the evidence used to make the necessary showing. It is a written document, prepared by the lawyer after speaking with the records custodian, and then reviewed and signed by the records custodian. (Note, Germaine, it's not a "certificate" but a "certification"). Again, a specific legal term (#2 here: https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/certification.html...
The lawyer files this certification with the court in order to make the showing (i.e., to show or to prove) that the business records in question fit the requirements of 18 U.S.C. § 3505, and therefore that these records can be presented to the jury.
Ph-b is correct that "records" is very broad, much broader than "registres," and that "documents" is likely the best translation
Authentification de documents privés
Registres d’entreprises étrangères comparables aux registres d’entreprises américaines disponibles pour consultation (un avis d’intention de soumettre les registres doit être remis)
Attestation du dépositaire des registres
En anglais, "records" a un sens beaucoup plus large que "registres". Dans ce sens, il serait peut-être préférable d’utiliser "Registres/documents", comme vous le suggérez, ou même simplement "documents".
Dans le contexte "business", je comprends:
- "records available on showing" comme les registres/documents qui peuvent être consultés en personne, sur demande, là où ils sont gardés, pendant les heures normales d’affaires;
- "domestic business records" comme les registres/documents d’entreprises américaines (le texte faisant référence à la réglementation des États-Unis). En principe, "domestic" se traduit par "national", mais "d’entreprises nationales" peut porter à interprétation/confusion dans ce contexte, tout comme "locales" d’ailleurs.
Attorneys must "show" that these conditions are met; they do so by providing a written certification from the person who knows the facts, namely the employee of the foreign business who is in charge of making and/or keeping these records. This required showing is similar to that required for admitting US business records (i.e. the attorney has to present a written certification from the records custodian that says essentially the same thing).
The rules of evidence provide for a hearsay rule (defining what cannot be used) and a list of exceptions to the hearsay rule. Business records are an exception: you can use business records to prove that what is stated in those records is true.
The statute you're citing is part of the federal rules of evidence: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-II/chapter-2...
It says that certain foreign business records are admissible (can be considered by the jury) as an exception to the hearsay rule, if the conditions set forth in the statute you're citing are met. Those conditions are similar to the conditions under which US business records can be admitted under a hearsay exception (they require a similar showing, i.e. similar proof that the conditions are met, as US business records do).