Wolf Draeger Sep 10, 2012:

Humpty Dumpty "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less".

Perhaps our FR writer has something in common with the Eggman :-)

Wolf Draeger Sep 10, 2012:

Invasive? In this context - the agriculture practised by this community is invasive?

B D Finch Sep 10, 2012:

extensive vs extensible As I understand it, "extensible" means that agriculture could expand using extensive agricultural methods, but that this is only an option that might not be chosen. However, there is land potentially available for it. The existing agriculture may or may not be extensive.

cc in nyc Sep 6, 2012:

@ Wolf Yup, it's probably "farming" and most likely not "extensive" – whcih they could have said in French, had they meant that. Instead they chose "extensible," which has a different (French) dictionary definition. ;-)

Diana Huet de Guerville (asker) Sep 6, 2012:

Well I'm glad to see the discussion hasn't ended because I'm certainly curious about the 'right' definition myself. If an expert on the term shows up, feel free to chime in.

@Wolf: you're right that we're just assuming that "extensible" and "extensive" have the same meaning in French, for now that seems like the easiest way to go. But if I ever come across a French agricultural expert, I'll be sure to ask! And I agree with your assessment that this text refers to the practices this particular community, which makes sense to me in this context since the residents in question rely heavily on natural resources and overexploit them - so extensive as in low-input and low-yield, but definitely not sustainable!

By the way the text is about climate change impact on ecosystems in Guinea-Bissau, don't know if that helps at all.

Wolf Draeger Sep 6, 2012:

...and if... Aisha says: "... imply that agriculture "grows" at the expense of other ecosystems/natural habitats".

That's what I was kind of thinking with "encroaches on".

Diana, I know you've closed the question and awarded points, so any further discussion has no bearing on your work, but out of curiosity, where is the text based, in which region?

Wolf Draeger Sep 6, 2012:

What if... Just thinking that in the text, "l'agriculture" seems to refer to the farming methods practised by a particular rural community, as in their farming methods are essentially "extensible", resulting in deforestation and harming the environment, sooo... not necessarily a remark on agriculture in general, but rather as it is being practised by this specific community? Thoughts?

Wolf Draeger Sep 6, 2012:

@ BD Agree; I was just trying to provide one definition of extensive in order to draw a contrast with intensive and show that extensive is not the same as extensible. The general idea is that extensive is low-yield over a long period on more land and intensive is high-yield over a short period on less land; people will then disagree as to which is better or more sustainable, etc, but that's not the point here.

B D Finch Sep 5, 2012:

@Wolf Extensive agriculture is not synonymous with "long-term and sustainable". Indeed, depending upon the context, it can be unsustainable and damaging to the environment, while some forms of intensification can be sustainable and environmentally friendly. It is also possible to simultaneously extend and intensify agriculture.

Wolf Draeger Sep 5, 2012:

Closing remarks @ cc: right :-)

@ Diana, Catherine: me not an expert, and if the shoe fits...but I still have my doubts; extensible is a very specific term choice. Extensive in a farming context is simply the opposite of intensive; i.e. long-term and sustainable vs short-term and less sustainable. We still don't really know what "agriculture extensible" means, just assuming it's the same as extensive...hmmm.

But if the client's happy, that's what matters at the end, right :-) ?

Diana Huet de Guerville (asker) Sep 5, 2012:

Thanks everyone for your comments! Who knew this one would be so tricky!


@Wolf - yes the texts I cited seem to contradict each other, which is why I was confused about the meaning - but they're not from the same place (I should have made that more clear), they were more to show that this is indeed a term that is used in French.



I went back to the termium entry that Catherine provided (quoted below), and it does sound to me like extensive agriculture fits here. Plus the definition they provide makes sense and explains the contradictions a bit - it's good in that it uses less inputs (chemical and otherwise), but it's bad in that it takes up more land since the yield is lower - leading to deforestation etc., the problem cited in the source text.



termium:
"Extensive agriculture is distinguished from intensive agriculture in that the latter, employing large amounts of labour and capital, enables one to apply fertilizers, insecticides, fungicides, and herbicides and to plant, cultivate, and often harvest mechanically. Because extensive agriculture produces a lower yield per unit of land, its use commercially requires large quantities of land in order to be profitable."

cc in nyc Sep 5, 2012:

@ Wolf It might work as "encroaching," to modify agriculture / farming ;-)

Wolf Draeger Sep 5, 2012:

Encroachment? Scalable is an interesting option. I just realised that the other excerpts Diana provided are from the web, not her text :-p so no contradiction there, though there may be other interpretations elsewhere as you say, cc.

How about encroachment, in the sense that agriculture encroaches on the natural environment?

cc in nyc Sep 5, 2012:

@ Wolf and Diana My thought is that "extensible" is akin to "scalable." It can be good when scaled on the low side, or bad when scaled on the high side. In an agriculture de subsistence," it's good, but when it involves "le déboisement et le prélèvement abusif sur les ressources naturelles," it's bad. But each context might call for a different translation.

Wolf Draeger Sep 5, 2012:

Versatile? Setting aside the apparent contradictions, could extensible perhaps mean versatile, as in a parcel of land can be alternately used to grow one type of crop, then another, then left fallow, then used for grazing, etc which somehow reduces the impact of agriculture on the land?

Petit Robert defines extensible as "3. Qui, par sa généralité, sa souplesse peut s'appliquer à plusieurs choses, englober d'autres choses".

Wolf Draeger Sep 5, 2012:

Contradiction? Hi Diana, the extra texts seem to contradict one another, or I am reading them wrong?

First, l'agriculture extensible is depleting natural resources, so it's perceived as bad; then, it doesn't use chemical products or pesticides and has a low yield, which would be seen as good in contrast to the abusive commercial agriculture; but then it's applied to irrigated lands that use up too much water, so it's bad again...

Is the writer confused, or am I? :-)

Diana Huet de Guerville (asker) Sep 4, 2012:

a typo is always possible, of course, but since I found other instances of the term in French it looks like it's correct.

And I only have one page of the document for now, so no more examples to give, sorry!

Diana Huet de Guerville (asker) Sep 4, 2012:

oops the other text cut off. Here are some other occurrence I found online:
1 / Agriculture de subsistance: Avant la révolution verte ou n’en bénéficie pas. Cette agriculture n’utilise pas les moyens modernes de production. Ils n’utilisent pas les engrais chimiques, ni de pesticides, ni de machines, investissement faible. Ils recourent à une agriculture extensible avec une production très faible."

and "Dans les zones arrosées ou irriguées, on pratique une agriculture extensible qui absorbe une grosse quantité d’eau, tandis que beaucoup de terres cultivables restent inexploitées."

and "En val inondable, les prairies ont disparu au profit des terres cultivées. Les parcelles s’agrandissent, conséquence du développement de l’agriculture extensible. Néanmoins, l’agriculture restant majoritaire et très présente, le paysage garde son caractère ouvert. Les boisements se densifient mais ces formations restent éparses."

Didier Fourcot Sep 4, 2012:

Extensive I believe in a typo in source text, or by the writer or by the typist if the text has been dictated

Aisha Maniar Sep 4, 2012:

can you provide another example of "agriculture extensible" or "extensible" in this context from your text?

Diana Huet de Guerville (asker) Sep 4, 2012:

thanks for all your suggestions. From my reading in French is sounds like 'agriculture extensible' is the opposite of 'agriculture intensive,' and sometimes it seems associated with 'durable, vivable.' But in other places it does seem fairly intensive and in my original sentence it definitely sounds negative!

A little more context: "Une grande majorité de cette population, parmi lesquels les femmes et les hommes ruraux sont très dépendants des services des écosystèmes pour se nourrir et générer des revenus (PANA, 2006). Ces services ecosystemiques connaissent actuellement un état de dégradation alarmant. L’agriculture est essentiellement extensible, fondée sur le déboisement et le prélèvement abusif sur les ressources naturelles, qui sont aussi surexploitées et menacés de disparition. Cela se traduit par un niveau de déforestation très élevé et perte considérable en biodiversité."

Here are a few descriptions I've found online:
Under the heading "agriculture de subsistence" : "Avant la révolution verte ou n’en bénéficie pas. Cette agriculture n’utilise pas les moyens modernes de production. Ils n’utilisent pas les engrais chimiques, ni de pesticides, ni de machines, investi

Sue Stewart-Anderson (X) Sep 4, 2012:

a variation on 'extensive' Try a FR to EN search on 'extensible' in IATE

kashew Sep 4, 2012:

Flexible?? but, some more context please.