Glossary entry (derived from question below)
français term or phrase:
dans sa cohérence et sa permanence
anglais translation:
all that it contains in the way of logic and immutability
Added to glossary by
lundy
Oct 24, 2008 14:08
15 yrs ago
français term
dans sa cohérence et sa permanence
français vers anglais
Art / Littérature
Histoire
Sorry, simply a big brain block on this one...
... an introduction to a civilization's consistent and enduring way of thought?
MTIA
Cet ouvrage permet de comprendre, à l’aide d’exemples simples, le mode de fonctionnement de la langue égyptienne, où l’image se substitue au mot. Il constitue ainsi une approche de la pensée d’une civilisation dans sa cohérence et sa permanence.
... an introduction to a civilization's consistent and enduring way of thought?
MTIA
Cet ouvrage permet de comprendre, à l’aide d’exemples simples, le mode de fonctionnement de la langue égyptienne, où l’image se substitue au mot. Il constitue ainsi une approche de la pensée d’une civilisation dans sa cohérence et sa permanence.
Proposed translations
(anglais)
Proposed translations
4 heures
Selected
all that it contains in the way of logic and immutability
The book introduces the thinking of a whole civilization, and all that it contains in the way of logic and immutability
What the book helps to understand is the civilization in general but hieroglyphics in particular:"l'image se substitue au mot" and I think that cohérence and permanence refers in particular (but not only) to that. I think that the word coherence can be translated in the sense of "logic" - the logical way hieroglyphics were designed. I think the "permanence" refers, as you say, to its enduring nature and I think the word "immutability" might do - after all, according to the site below hieroglyphics were used for 3500 years.
What the book helps to understand is the civilization in general but hieroglyphics in particular:"l'image se substitue au mot" and I think that cohérence and permanence refers in particular (but not only) to that. I think that the word coherence can be translated in the sense of "logic" - the logical way hieroglyphics were designed. I think the "permanence" refers, as you say, to its enduring nature and I think the word "immutability" might do - after all, according to the site below hieroglyphics were used for 3500 years.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I REALLY appreciate all the time and effort you all put into this - especially Matthew who I could see really put a lot of thought into it. In the end, I do believe it refers to "la pensee", and I liked lundy's phrasing of it. Thanks again."
1 heure
comprehensively and entirely/completely
The main idea here is that the approach permits one to understand the culture as a whole, not just one dimension but all dimensions; somewhat like the difference between a circle and a sphere.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Emma Paulay
: I think you're right in that 'cohérence' and 'permanence' refer to the book or its approach, and not to the civilisation.
22 heures
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It could be either way,it depends on what "sa" refers to, the civilization or the book. But in any event, I would translate the terms the same way.
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20 heures
Helen Shiner
Royaume-Uni
Royaume-Uni
Native in anglais
Specializes in field
Royaume-Uni
Arts/Academic translator - Art historian
Native in: anglais
Works in: allemand vers anglais, français vers anglais
Related KudoZ points
:
32
as a whole and in light of its longevity
It constitutes an approach to the civilisation's system of thought/belief system as a whole and in light of its longevity.
My take on it, FWIW. Permanence is difficult since this civilisation was not permanent. It considered itself to be permanent, perhaps, so this is either about its actual longevity or its presumed permanence. Therefore, my second suggestion would take account of this latter possibility and go something like this:
as a whole and in light of its presumed longevity.
My take on it, FWIW. Permanence is difficult since this civilisation was not permanent. It considered itself to be permanent, perhaps, so this is either about its actual longevity or its presumed permanence. Therefore, my second suggestion would take account of this latter possibility and go something like this:
as a whole and in light of its presumed longevity.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
MatthewLaSon
: I do not believe that "dans sa cohérence et permanence" is referring to the book or the approach. I agree on that point.
5 heures
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Yes, I agree; I'm surprised that it is seen as ambiguous, but I guess it is good to pose the question just in case.
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1 jour 20 heures
logical and long-standing
It provides a logical and long-standing insight into the thought process of a civilisation.
Or perhaps 'continuous' instead of 'long-standing' and why not coherent for 'cohérence'?
Grammatically there is no reason why 'cohérence' and 'permanence' cannot refer to the work.
Or perhaps 'continuous' instead of 'long-standing' and why not coherent for 'cohérence'?
Grammatically there is no reason why 'cohérence' and 'permanence' cannot refer to the work.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
MatthewLaSon
: How is that possible grammatically? The work approaches Egyptian thought in its coherence/permanency (even though we can't say that in English). It's most likely referring to the thought, even "civilization" is unlikely. The sentence is vague, imo.
5 heures
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15 heures
in view of it belonging to an enduring civilization with sound reasoning
Hello,
My understanding: This book approaches Egyptian thought (history of it) in view of it belonging to an enduring civilization with sound reasoning
I think that "sa" is referring to "civilisation", not "thought" or "approach".
I know that "cohérence" can mean "coherent logic" or "coherent reasoning."
dans sa permanence = in its continued existence (over time)
dans sa cohérence = in its use of coherent reasoning
I hope this helps.
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-10-25 15:55:02 GMT)
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I CHANGED MY ANSWER TO THIS:
This book approaches Egyptian thought (history of it) in view of it belonging to an enduring and culturally consistent civilization.
I NOW believe that "cohérence" is referring to being culturally consistant over time (not "logical").
permanence = enduring (longstanding civilization)
I believe that "sa" is still referring to the civilization, not to the approach or the book.
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Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2008-10-25 20:04:51 GMT)
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Let's change it once more:
This book approaches Egyptian civilization thought in view of its longstanding existence as well as its consistencies over time.
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Note added at 2 days3 hrs (2008-10-26 17:13:02 GMT)
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It'd be better to word it this way: The book/work approaches Egyptian thought in view of its consistencies and longstanding existence.
My understanding: This book approaches Egyptian thought (history of it) in view of it belonging to an enduring civilization with sound reasoning
I think that "sa" is referring to "civilisation", not "thought" or "approach".
I know that "cohérence" can mean "coherent logic" or "coherent reasoning."
dans sa permanence = in its continued existence (over time)
dans sa cohérence = in its use of coherent reasoning
I hope this helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-10-25 15:55:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I CHANGED MY ANSWER TO THIS:
This book approaches Egyptian thought (history of it) in view of it belonging to an enduring and culturally consistent civilization.
I NOW believe that "cohérence" is referring to being culturally consistant over time (not "logical").
permanence = enduring (longstanding civilization)
I believe that "sa" is still referring to the civilization, not to the approach or the book.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2008-10-25 20:04:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Let's change it once more:
This book approaches Egyptian civilization thought in view of its longstanding existence as well as its consistencies over time.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days3 hrs (2008-10-26 17:13:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It'd be better to word it this way: The book/work approaches Egyptian thought in view of its consistencies and longstanding existence.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Helen Shiner
: I think it is the internal coherence of the belief system, which might be translated as the internal logic in some contexts, but not here IMO./'Consistent' is fine, though this is belief not culture specifically, IMO, not so keen on original 'sound reason
11 heures
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I don't know if my original translation is that wrong. I confused myself this morning. Although I kept on saying that "dans sa cohérence..." was referring to the civilization, my original translation could be taken to imply Egyptian thought. LOL.
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