Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
amont/aval
English translation:
preparation/implementation
Added to glossary by
Stephanie Mitchel
Jun 2, 2006 21:08
18 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term
United States
amont/aval
French to English
Bus/Financial
Law: Contract(s)
contract language
Nos chers amis amont et aval. I think this might be along the lines of 'amont' meaning 'preliminary' hours and its counterpart, er, 'direct'? hours, i.e. hours spent working on the project rather than studying it? (Context: lawsuit brought by engineers to dispute billing of major scope-of-work and site changes to a project. Country: Algeria.)
Thanks!
"Pour les prestations techniques, par exemple, toutes les heures associées à l'ingénieur en chef en aval sont considérées comme un coût direct et toutes les heures associées à l'ingénieur projet en amont sont considérées comme un coût indirect."
Thanks!
"Pour les prestations techniques, par exemple, toutes les heures associées à l'ingénieur en chef en aval sont considérées comme un coût direct et toutes les heures associées à l'ingénieur projet en amont sont considérées comme un coût indirect."
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | preparation vs implementation |
sarahl (X)
|
| 3 +3 | upstream / downstream |
Julie Barber
|
| 3 | beforehand/subsequently |
CMJ_Trans (X)
|
| 3 | pre-contract / post-contract |
Bourth (X)
|
| 3 | pre-production phase/post-production phase |
MatthewLaSon
|
Proposed translations
1 hr
Selected
preparation vs implementation
if I had a dollar for every time I heard the stupid phrase...
Note from asker:
| (should I send you a buck?) |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
MatthewLaSon
: Pre/post-production phase would encompass both preparation (pre) and implementation (post). Implementation is after it's been produced/designed. Anyways, "en aval" includes all costs post-production, and "en amont" are in the pre-production phase.
2 days 4 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks sarah!"
26 mins
beforehand/subsequently
might work here
2 hrs
pre-contract / post-contract
Well, it's one possibility.
It would make sense for post-contract work to be a direct cost, one that is (in one form or another, depending on the payment conditions of the contract, etc.) billed to the customer, and for work prior to contract signature (preparing a tender, etc.) to be "indirect", i.e. forming part of overheads which cannot be billed to the customer (even if, "indirectly", it is factored in).
Would need more info. on what the engineer is doing/has done, etc. to be more confident or come up with sth else.
Of course you could always use "upline" and "downline", esp. if the "watershed" in this case (sous-entendu) is a point in the phases of work.
Beachphone and a railway?
It would make sense for post-contract work to be a direct cost, one that is (in one form or another, depending on the payment conditions of the contract, etc.) billed to the customer, and for work prior to contract signature (preparing a tender, etc.) to be "indirect", i.e. forming part of overheads which cannot be billed to the customer (even if, "indirectly", it is factored in).
Would need more info. on what the engineer is doing/has done, etc. to be more confident or come up with sth else.
Of course you could always use "upline" and "downline", esp. if the "watershed" in this case (sous-entendu) is a point in the phases of work.
Beachphone and a railway?
Note from asker:
| Hmm. would love to know what you mean by the last line - is it a play on words? |
+3
23 mins
Julie Barber
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
Related KudoZ points
:
116
upstream / downstream
is probably a petrol related project....
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Note added at 25 mins (2006-06-02 21:33:57 GMT)
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adj,adverb further along a river towards the sea; with the current.
French: en aval
http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=en av...
en amont - up stream - check the gloss I know that it's in there!
These are oil / petrol industry related words
It's not the hours it's the engineers that are en aval and en amont:
l'ingénieur en chef en aval
l'ingénieur projet en amont
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Note added at 11 hrs (2006-06-03 08:53:21 GMT)
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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/16/47/36138740.pdf
gives an explanation of the concept
In any case it's clear to me that en amont / en aval refers to the engineers themselves, and the billing for their costs...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2006-06-02 21:33:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
adj,adverb further along a river towards the sea; with the current.
French: en aval
http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=en av...
en amont - up stream - check the gloss I know that it's in there!
These are oil / petrol industry related words
It's not the hours it's the engineers that are en aval and en amont:
l'ingénieur en chef en aval
l'ingénieur projet en amont
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2006-06-03 08:53:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/16/47/36138740.pdf
gives an explanation of the concept
In any case it's clear to me that en amont / en aval refers to the engineers themselves, and the billing for their costs...
Note from asker:
| Thanks, I did check the gloss but didn't find anything that was close enough to my context to give me confidence. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
zaphod
: They really should check the glossaries
2 hrs
|
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I know...whilst it does refer to various phases of a project, it's a very specific wording
|
|
| agree |
Adrian MM. (X)
14 hrs
|
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thanks
|
|
| neutral |
nnaemeka Odimegwu
: a note, what is upstream with regards to the function of the person so stated? i have seen so much of amont and aval that i really wish someone would provide an inspiration
17 hrs
|
|
hi. Can you please see the glossary because there are quite a few refs in there....
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|
| agree |
MatthewLaSon
: You've got my approval. I've done the research. You are right ! You can also say "pre/post production phase". Excellent!
2 days 5 hrs
|
1 day 8 hrs
pre-production phase/post-production phase
Hello,
Imagine an upside down "V", which would look like a * ^ *. If you're climbling up the left side of this symbol, the engineer is working towards a final product (pre-production). And, when he's walking down, he's in the post-production phase. At the pinnacle, the product is finished/completed. Thus, "upstream/downstream" analogy preferred in French.
Indirect costs are involved in the "pre-production phase" (planning, conception, testing, etc), while direct costs are in the post-production phase (installing, repairs, etc).
This is my understanding. I hope this helps.
Imagine an upside down "V", which would look like a * ^ *. If you're climbling up the left side of this symbol, the engineer is working towards a final product (pre-production). And, when he's walking down, he's in the post-production phase. At the pinnacle, the product is finished/completed. Thus, "upstream/downstream" analogy preferred in French.
Indirect costs are involved in the "pre-production phase" (planning, conception, testing, etc), while direct costs are in the post-production phase (installing, repairs, etc).
This is my understanding. I hope this helps.
Reference:
http://www.itech.fr/itechlyon/?page=ingenieur-chimie-des-formulations
http://www.eclecticengineering.com/site/modules.php?name=News&file=categories&op=newindex&catid=2
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