SafeTex Dec 13, 2019:

@ all Hello

Another problem with "assets" is that if anyone asks you what the opposite of assets is, you would probably say "liabilities"
In France, many people refuse inheritances as then then have to pick up the liabilities (debts) too and I'm not just talking about inheriting a house for instance and picking up the mortgage on it which is logical. The catch in France is:

"Au regard de la loi, les héritiers sont responsables des dettes contractées par un proche disparu. S’ils acceptent une succession, ils devront payer l’intégralité des créances."

Source: https://www.bfmtv.com/pratique-finances-perso/comment-gerer-...

or

"Attention : si le passif dont vous héritez est supérieur à l’actif de votre héritage, vous devrez quand même payer ces dettes en puisant dans votre patrimoine personnel."

Source: https://www.macsf.fr/Patrimoine-Finance/Refuser-ou-accepter-...

For this reason "assets" is doubly problematic as opposed to "estate", at least in France.

Daryo Dec 13, 2019:

@Eliza all your objections would be far more sustainable IF this wasn't about a will:

"Law/Patents - Law (general) / Provision of a will"

OTOH it might be a quote from a contract that would apply in case of divorce.

You need the whole ST to be sure.

SafeTex Dec 12, 2019:

@Eliza Hello

The word that the Swiss seem to use for "assets" in matrimonial law is actually "aquêts" rather than "fortune", which is more for tax purposes and seems to be used as aconvenient catch-all phrase too in articles.
Beyond that, while I agree that we should pay attention to the source text, you conveniently ignore here that translations are actually into the TARGET text and in English, when you die, it is "ESTATE". "Assets" sounds VERY wrong here.
Yet again, I note too that "estate" had a strong majority of "agrees", only one "disagree" (yours of course) and that the asker chose "Estate", much the same scenario as a recent question about "classify".

Eliza Hall Dec 12, 2019:

@SafeTex/Adrian: Why "disagree" SafeTex thought my "disagree" on Adrian's answer was harsh. Here's why I didn't pick "neutral" (and why I picked "agree" for Thierry M. Niangoran's perfect translation):

There are words for "estate" in FR: succession, patrimoine. Those words are used in Swiss law: "C’est le droit successoral qui réglera ce qu’il adviendra de votre patrimoine après votre décès." And "S’il n’y a aucun parents susmentionnés du tout, la succession est dévolue entièrement au canton ou à la commune."

https://www.ch.ch/fr/droit-des-successions

And there's a word for the spousal share (or other relative's share) of an estate: "La réserve héréditaire est une part de la succession qui est garantie pour les descendants, les parents, le conjoint et le partenaire enregistré" (same link).

But none of those words were used in the text AllegroTrans is translating. That text uses a term that, in every Swiss source I found, means assets, capital, or fortune (and usually assets). Why should we deviate from the source text, which uses a term that means assets/capital/fortune, and doesn't use any of the terms that mean estate?

SafeTex Dec 11, 2019:

@Eliza and all Hello

You are right to say that it CITES the marriage contract, but that also proves conclusively that it is NOT the marriage contract. Furthermore, it is in the provisions of the WILL according to the asker.
For these two reasons, I feel that "estate" is correct here and that your disagree with Adrian due to his use of "estate" was very harsh.
We only have three options when commenting a suggestion so there is a world of difference between "neutral" (with comments as to why) and "disagree". I note too that his answer was chosen by the asker and had the most "agrees".
Regards
SafeTex

Eliza Hall Dec 11, 2019:

Assets, not estate This sentence may be in a will, but it's referring to what their marriage contract says. The marriage contract is about how spouses own property while married -- i.e., while alive.

It doesn't make sense to say "estate" here. Napoleonic/FR-law marriage contracts are not about the division of property upon death; they're about property ownership while alive.

And every Swiss source I've seen uses "part de fortune" to mean assets, or occasionally capital or fortune. It's about the assets/capital/fortune of a living person or an existing business. Google this or something similar to see what I mean:

suisse contrat matrimonial renoncer "part de fortune" -astrologie
Or
suisse droit "part de fortune" dictionnaire -astrologie

The "-astrologie" is because "part de fortune" has a meaning in astrology, which obviously isn't what's at issue here (EN equiv for astrology: "part of fortune").

What this document seems to be saying is, "In view of our marriage contract, [we] renounce each other's share of assets. Thus, consistent with that, here's how to distribute my assets when I die..."

AllegroTrans (asker) Dec 10, 2019:

This is from Switzerland That is where the will was made and where the testator's property is. I don't know where he and his wife made the contrat matrimonial so can only assume that it was in Switzerland

Eliza Hall Dec 10, 2019:

Which country? What FR-speaking country is this from? Asking because AFAIK in most FR-speaking countries, Canada excepted and Switzerland possibly excepted, prenuptial agreements in the US/UK sense don't exist.

In France, for instance, a contrat matrimonial isn't a true prenup. It's a piece of paper that states which of the three available régimes matrimoniaux the couple has chosen (universal community property, community of post-marriage acquisitions, or separation of assets). In other words, how they have agreed to own property after they're married (not upon divorce, as with a US/UK prenup, but throughout their marriage): https://droit-finances.commentcamarche.com/contents/1026-con...

If a couple chose the separation of assets regime, then it would make sense that "en vertu de [leur] contrat matrimonial," they would both renounce the spousal share to which they'd otherwise be entitled upon the death of one spouse, and/or to each other's assets.

If this is Swiss or Canadian, it might be something else.

Wendy Cummings Dec 10, 2019:

First thoughts My very first thought is that this is a waiver of any claim over the other's assets - presumably they have a prenup establishing a separation de biens. So irrespective of any items he may choose to leave his wife in his will, the wife has no legal claim over any other part of his estate.