Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Japanese term or phrase:
忍び
English translation:
warrior of stealth arts
Added to glossary by
humbird
Dec 8, 2006 19:49
17 yrs ago
Japanese term
忍び
Japanese to English
Art/Literary
History
It is generally refered as Ninja. However, if I am to put Ninja for 忍者, how can I say 忍び?
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
2 hrs
Selected
warrior of stealth arts
おっさｈるとおり、忍者というのは使いすぎで、本当に安っぽい響きになってしまいましたよね。
この応えはRie さんのサイトから得たヒントです。影で動くので shadow warrior などといいたいのですが、これは重要人物のダブルを意味しますよね(黒澤明の映画の｢影武者」のように）。
また正式の武士ではないのですが、戦う人間であることは確かなのでこんな風にひねってみました。
もっとぴったりの案がでるといいですね。
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-12-08 22:11:43 GMT)
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きゃっ、転換ミス。
おっさｈるとおり －＞ おっしゃるとおり
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-12-08 22:12:26 GMT)
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ぴったり一語というと難しいですね。
この応えはRie さんのサイトから得たヒントです。影で動くので shadow warrior などといいたいのですが、これは重要人物のダブルを意味しますよね(黒澤明の映画の｢影武者」のように）。
また正式の武士ではないのですが、戦う人間であることは確かなのでこんな風にひねってみました。
もっとぴったりの案がでるといいですね。
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-12-08 22:11:43 GMT)
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きゃっ、転換ミス。
おっさｈるとおり －＞ おっしゃるとおり
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-12-08 22:12:26 GMT)
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ぴったり一語というと難しいですね。
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Roddy Stegemann
: よいと思いますが、言葉を使いすぎましたね。
1 hr
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Thank you Hamo, but arts is like "martial arts". Connotation is the one who uses such skill.
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you, Susan. I will use the word "stealth". Yes, "shadow warrior" is another good one, but I am actually using that for another term. Thanks."
3 hrs
Roddy Stegemann
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stealth warrior
議論をよく聞いて、上記のリンクを見つけました。
Note from asker:
| This sounds good, too. But as yours is very similar to Susan's and because she was first, I am awarding her the points. Thank you for your help. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
humbird
: Thanks for agreeing. But I am a bit apprehensive about the source you cited. It has no authenticity. For instance in the site "Samurai History" author does not mention about the origin of Bushi. It is Samurai that means body guard ... out of space.
1 hr
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忍者が歴史的な背景がありますが、現代の意識であると、漫画と人形を考えた方がよいでしょう。
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3 hrs
(secret/hidden) infiltrator
Ninja, of course, has now entered English usage- thanks to the 80s 'Teenage Ninja Hero Turtles'. Consequently, 'Ninja spy', 'Ninja agent' can be used.
If you are trying to get across the general meaning though of someone who acts stealthily, 'infiltrator' may work, perhaps with the modifiers 'secret infiltrator', 'hidden infiltrator' etc.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-12-09 00:26:51 GMT)
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[Continuation of response to Hamo]: 'infiltration' being purposeful does not necessarily imply that it is secretive. The purpose is penetration even when not surreptitious. cf. 'The probe infiltrated the gaseous clouds that envelope the Planet Jupiter'
If you are trying to get across the general meaning though of someone who acts stealthily, 'infiltrator' may work, perhaps with the modifiers 'secret infiltrator', 'hidden infiltrator' etc.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-12-09 00:26:51 GMT)
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[Continuation of response to Hamo]: 'infiltration' being purposeful does not necessarily imply that it is secretive. The purpose is penetration even when not surreptitious. cf. 'The probe infiltrated the gaseous clouds that envelope the Planet Jupiter'
Note from asker:
| "Someone who works stealthly" is what I was thinking and I think I will use the word "stealth". Thank you very much for your help. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Roddy Stegemann
: Don't you think terms like "secret infiltrator" and "hidden infiltrator" are a little redundant? After all infiltration means surreptitious penetration. // An interesting defense, but infiltration is purposeful -- no matter how it is received.
8 mins
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Nyet:'Infiltrate' primarily means to penetrate the boundary of a coherent, unified entity. This can be observed openly. cf: 'Globalization has infiltrated every corner of the globe'- process largely unconscious not surreptitious//see answer note above
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| neutral |
humbird
: I like this. However like Hamo pointed out no "infiltration" is open and visible, word in parenthesis is redundant. Other than that your argument, while legitimate, is rather immaterial to the question.
1 hr
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Even if so (and I do not yet concede it to be always so), I would also argue that natural language is full of apparant 'redundancies', or rather stylistic collocations. It is an unavoidable inevitability which can't be changed.
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11 hrs
Will Matter
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(some) one skilled in the art of stealth.
"Shinobi" is generally considered to be a synonym for 'ninja', it's another term that was (and still is) used to to describe someone who practices the art of 'ninjutsu'. 'Shinobi', 'shinobi-bito' and 'ninja' all mean the same thing. HTH.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2006-12-10 03:49:54 GMT)
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Here's a reference (one among many) http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ninja.html There are lots of alternate terms for 'ninja', some are archaic, some are still in use. In addition to those given above you may see 'shinobi no mono' and even 'Iga no mono' and 'Koga no mono'. All of these terms simply mean 'ninja'. Also, the kanji for 'ninja-too' (忍者刀) can be read as 'shinobigatana'. HTH.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2006-12-10 03:58:16 GMT)
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http://www.yume-dojo.org/index.php?ninpo=1
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2006-12-10 03:49:54 GMT)
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Here's a reference (one among many) http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ninja.html There are lots of alternate terms for 'ninja', some are archaic, some are still in use. In addition to those given above you may see 'shinobi no mono' and even 'Iga no mono' and 'Koga no mono'. All of these terms simply mean 'ninja'. Also, the kanji for 'ninja-too' (忍者刀) can be read as 'shinobigatana'. HTH.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2006-12-10 03:58:16 GMT)
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http://www.yume-dojo.org/index.php?ninpo=1
Note from asker:
| Thank you for taking time to answer my question and thank you for the link. Yes, they all mean the same thing. I think I will use the work "stealth" but as Susan is the first one to came up with that word, I am rewarding her the points. |
2 days 10 hrs
incognito
was how the term was used in the film マルサの女.
However, since you provide zero CONTEXT, how are we supposed to answer?
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Note added at 3 days10 hrs (2006-12-12 06:00:34 GMT) Post-grading
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> I thought people would know what Shinobi is without context.
As a lapsed linguist, I must reiterate: Words have no meaning without a CONTEXT. In other words, a word's "meaning" depends on its CONTEXT. As I recall, the AmaZ.com form for posting a query specifically mentions CONTEXT.
However, since you provide zero CONTEXT, how are we supposed to answer?
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Note added at 3 days10 hrs (2006-12-12 06:00:34 GMT) Post-grading
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> I thought people would know what Shinobi is without context.
As a lapsed linguist, I must reiterate: Words have no meaning without a CONTEXT. In other words, a word's "meaning" depends on its CONTEXT. As I recall, the AmaZ.com form for posting a query specifically mentions CONTEXT.
Note from asker:
| Should be "awarding", right? |
| Thank you for taking time to answer, Maynard. Sorry for making it difficult for you to answer by not giving any context. I thought people would know what Shinobi is without context. I was simply asking for another word for Ninja. |
| Oops. I'm sorry. The first note is addressed to Willmatter-san. |
Discussion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
Hope you find a ninja expert!