Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Swedish term or phrase:
könsförnedrande
English translation:
degrading to women (depending on context)
Added to glossary by
Charlesp
Jul 12, 2005 19:31
18 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Swedish term
könsförnedrande
Swedish to English
Social Sciences
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Referring to for instance the stereotypical role (in a negative sence) a woman might be portrayed in a movie.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | degrading to women |
EKM
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| 5 +2 | sexist |
Michele Fauble
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| 4 | degrading to one's gender |
Kathy Saranpa
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Proposed translations
5 mins
Swedish term (edited):
k�nsf�rnedrande
Selected
degrading to women
'Kön' is of course 'gender', 'sex', but 'gender-degrading' does not ring right.
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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2005-07-12 20:55:26 GMT) Post-grading
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In fact, I am often wrong, and when I am I also try to admit this.
As stated in my reply to Michele, I agree she has a better solution in terms of inclusiveness. I will also agree to some extent that \'sexist\' is used in contexts similar to the one Charles is implying - but allow me to split some hairs though:
I still argue \'degrading\' is a more exact equivalent of \'förnedrande\'.
\'Förnedra\' carries connotations covered by the verbs \'humiliate\', \'disgrace\', or \'dishonour\'. More specifically, for a native speaker of Swedish, it brings up associations of things such as sado-masochist roleplay or military officers forcing their recruits to do humiliating things, where the victim is humiliated. This is the basic meaning of \'förnedring\'.
I don\'t think English \'sexist\' brings up such strong associations - although it contains a clear value message, it still rings more neutral... but I am not a native speaker of English, so maybe I am wrong in this respect.
It might be interesting to note that Swedish, more commonly than \'könsförnedrande\', uses the words \'könsdiskriminerande\' and \'sexistisk\', but the author of this text has chosen neither of these two options, which are closer cognates to English \'sexist\'. To me, this implies the author wants the reader to get these more base, vile associations. In short, my argument is that \'könsförnedrande\' carries a stronger and more emotionally charged value judgement than \'sexist\'.
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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2005-07-12 20:55:26 GMT) Post-grading
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In fact, I am often wrong, and when I am I also try to admit this.
As stated in my reply to Michele, I agree she has a better solution in terms of inclusiveness. I will also agree to some extent that \'sexist\' is used in contexts similar to the one Charles is implying - but allow me to split some hairs though:
I still argue \'degrading\' is a more exact equivalent of \'förnedrande\'.
\'Förnedra\' carries connotations covered by the verbs \'humiliate\', \'disgrace\', or \'dishonour\'. More specifically, for a native speaker of Swedish, it brings up associations of things such as sado-masochist roleplay or military officers forcing their recruits to do humiliating things, where the victim is humiliated. This is the basic meaning of \'förnedring\'.
I don\'t think English \'sexist\' brings up such strong associations - although it contains a clear value message, it still rings more neutral... but I am not a native speaker of English, so maybe I am wrong in this respect.
It might be interesting to note that Swedish, more commonly than \'könsförnedrande\', uses the words \'könsdiskriminerande\' and \'sexistisk\', but the author of this text has chosen neither of these two options, which are closer cognates to English \'sexist\'. To me, this implies the author wants the reader to get these more base, vile associations. In short, my argument is that \'könsförnedrande\' carries a stronger and more emotionally charged value judgement than \'sexist\'.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Kathy Saranpa
: Right-on in this context, but the word "könsförnedrande" could also apply to men. If asker chooses this one, it shouldn't be entered into glossary this way.
3 mins
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Thank you Kathy. I agree, and I think Michele has the best all-inclusive suggestion.
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| neutral |
Michele Fauble
: 'sexist' // IMO 'sexist', like 'racist', does convey the sense of 'förnedrande' .///..."but the author of this text has chosen neither of these two options, which are closer cognates to English 'sexist'." This begs the question. See my added note.
19 mins
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You are right - 'sexist' is a better term for its inclusiveness, but does not quite cover the '-förnedrande' part of the Swedish word. More recently, this concept has often been referred to as 'gender stereotyping' as well (mostly academic texts).
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| disagree |
Mario Marcolin
: doesn't necessarily imply women
43 mins
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Correct. If you look carefully at how I stated my answer, you will notice this is covered. I focused on the context provided here - pls see my reply to Michele's 'neutral' above.
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| neutral |
Peter Linton (X)
: It is very rare to find myself in disagreement with Mårten, but on this ocasion I think Michelle's answer hits the nail on the head.
48 mins
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You may be right - pls see my added explanation above though. :-)
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| neutral |
Anette Herbert
: To portray a woman in a degrading way would also be seen as degrading to many men, by both men and women, as that is implying that this is how men actually sees women. And if asker wants to convey the strength, should use " sexist and degrading" IMO
12 hrs
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Good suggestion! :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Mårten is always right!"
7 mins
Kathy Saranpa
Finland
Finland
Native in English
Works in field
Finland
Yale PhD, legal/medical spec.
Native in: English 
Works in: Swedish to English, Finnish to English, German to English, and 1 more.
Swedish term (edited):
k�nsf�rnedrande
degrading to one's gender
This is a tough one -- "sexually degrading" is an entirely different matter and can not be used here. I wish we had the rest of the sentence.
+2
18 mins
Michele Fauble
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Native English
Native in: English
Works in: Norwegian to English, Danish to English, Swedish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Swedish term (edited):
k�nsf�rnedrande
sexist
We must understand that we are currently living in a society with a sexist portrayal of women in media and advertising and cosmetic operations without ...
budoucnost.misto.cz/_MAIL_/zeny/anaen.html
The Committee is concerned at the continuing sexist portrayal of women in the media, especially in advertising. 27. The Committee calls on the Government to ...
www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/ cedaw/cedaw23/Romania%20as%20adopted.html
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Note added at 20 mins (2005-07-12 19:52:09 GMT) Post-grading
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\'Sexism\' and \'Sexist\' are the terms commonly used.
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Note added at 43 mins (2005-07-12 20:14:54 GMT) Post-grading
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\'sexist portrayal of women in the movies\'
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Note added at 22 hrs 50 mins (2005-07-13 18:21:51 GMT) Post-grading
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The asker has indicated, and I agree, that \'degrading to women\' is an acceptable translation.
Mårten Dalhed has stated
\"It might be interesting to note that Swedish, more commonly than \'könsförnedrande\', uses the words \'könsdiskriminerande\' and \'sexistisk\', but the author of this text has chosen neither of these two options, which are closer cognates to English \'sexist\'. To me, this implies the author wants the reader to get these more base, vile associations.\"
This assumes what he seeks to prove, i.e that \'sexist\' does NOT convey \"these more base, vile associations\". This is the logical fallacy of \'begging the question\'.
My suggestion of \'sexist\' as a translation of \'könsförnedrande\' reflects its use in public discourse. The sense of \'degrading\' may be less marked in academic texts. (Perhaps this mirrors the difference between \'könsförnedrande\' and \'sexistisk\' in Swedish).
budoucnost.misto.cz/_MAIL_/zeny/anaen.html
The Committee is concerned at the continuing sexist portrayal of women in the media, especially in advertising. 27. The Committee calls on the Government to ...
www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/ cedaw/cedaw23/Romania%20as%20adopted.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2005-07-12 19:52:09 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
\'Sexism\' and \'Sexist\' are the terms commonly used.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 43 mins (2005-07-12 20:14:54 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
\'sexist portrayal of women in the movies\'
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Note added at 22 hrs 50 mins (2005-07-13 18:21:51 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
The asker has indicated, and I agree, that \'degrading to women\' is an acceptable translation.
Mårten Dalhed has stated
\"It might be interesting to note that Swedish, more commonly than \'könsförnedrande\', uses the words \'könsdiskriminerande\' and \'sexistisk\', but the author of this text has chosen neither of these two options, which are closer cognates to English \'sexist\'. To me, this implies the author wants the reader to get these more base, vile associations.\"
This assumes what he seeks to prove, i.e that \'sexist\' does NOT convey \"these more base, vile associations\". This is the logical fallacy of \'begging the question\'.
My suggestion of \'sexist\' as a translation of \'könsförnedrande\' reflects its use in public discourse. The sense of \'degrading\' may be less marked in academic texts. (Perhaps this mirrors the difference between \'könsförnedrande\' and \'sexistisk\' in Swedish).
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Peter Linton (X)
: While the other answers are certainly good translations, this word conveys the same meaning, and is how it would naturally be written in English. Much the best answer.
30 mins
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thanks
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| agree |
Anette Herbert
: The use of sexist could be enhanced with "a sexist and degrading" portrayal, as degradation is gender neutral and a human moral issue. The poverty in Africa, for example, is degrading regardless of gender.
12 hrs
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Thanks. 'Sexist and degrading' sounds somewhat redundant to me. IMO 'sexist', as commonly used in public discourse, does convey the sense of 'degrading'.
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Discussion
3.2 - It is recommended that askers allow 24 hours to pass before grading. This gives professionals in various time zones an opportunity to prepare well-researched answers.