| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Help! What is my responsibility? Thread poster: Sandesh Ghimire
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I happened to know of a few in-house translators in my language pair who have been severely exploited by one of fellow translators (of course, a proz member). They happened to talk to me. They claimed that he has them translate at least 2000 words a day and pay them $250 per month,, meaning that they are getting $250 for 60 k words.
Of course it is none of my business. But it feels very very bad. What do you think I should do? Do I let it go and mind own business or speak up to help the... See more I happened to know of a few in-house translators in my language pair who have been severely exploited by one of fellow translators (of course, a proz member). They happened to talk to me. They claimed that he has them translate at least 2000 words a day and pay them $250 per month,, meaning that they are getting $250 for 60 k words.
Of course it is none of my business. But it feels very very bad. What do you think I should do? Do I let it go and mind own business or speak up to help them out.
Help! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Somnath Dey 
India
Local time: 10:55
Member (2014)
English to Bengali
+ ...
| you must Help! | Sep 25, 2015 |
Hi Santosh,
I think you should help them. Clients like them destroying the market. Encourage them to come forth and deny to work in salaried manner.
Somnath
| | | | | Not quite sure who is more at fault | Sep 25, 2015 |
the one who offered the job or the ones who accepted it.
These are awesome rates even by sweat-shop standards. We do not mention names here, maybe an email to the proz staff will help put a check on this. But frankly I doubt how effective that will be. The point is if they agree to such rates then there is pretty much nothing we can do but wait and see the bottom fall out of the barrel.
If these translators have an issue with the rates they should refuse to work for the... See more the one who offered the job or the ones who accepted it.
These are awesome rates even by sweat-shop standards. We do not mention names here, maybe an email to the proz staff will help put a check on this. But frankly I doubt how effective that will be. The point is if they agree to such rates then there is pretty much nothing we can do but wait and see the bottom fall out of the barrel.
If these translators have an issue with the rates they should refuse to work for the person in question instead of cribbing, simple. ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 01:25
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| How would you speak up? | Sep 25, 2015 |
Sandesh Ghimire wrote:
or speak up to help them out.
Help!
To whom? At where? in what way? for what purpose? And why do you need to speak up?
Even if you speak up, will you really help them out?
Do they really need you to help them out?
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 01:25
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Some translators deserve very low rate because they translate extremely poorly | Sep 25, 2015 |
Sudip Banerji wrote:
the one who offered the job or the ones who accepted it.
These are awesome rates even by sweat-shop standards. We do not mention names here, maybe an email to the proz staff will help put a check on this. But frankly I doubt how effective that will be. The point is if they agree to such rates then there is pretty much nothing we can do but wait and see the bottom fall out of the barrel.
If these translators have an issue with the rates they should refuse to work for the person in question instead of cribbing, simple.
Recently I got several editing jobs and the drafts were at a lower quality than a machine translated draft. In other words, it would take less time to edit a machine generated draft than to edit the translation submitted by these translators.
You may not believe that a human translation could be worse than a machine translation but believe it or not it is true. Look at this:
In a legal contract that mentioned something related to the 2 parties but the translator misread parties as parts, thus everything is wrong in a long sentence. The machine could at least convert some of the words correctly but no word was usable in that translator's draft.
| | | | Sandesh Ghimire
Nepal
Local time: 11:10
Nepali to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | But how low! As low as $250 per month. | Sep 25, 2015 |
[quote]jyuan_us wrote:
Sudip Banerji wrote:
If these translators have an issue with the rates they should refuse to work for the person in question instead of cribbing, simple.
Should there be a business ethics? Or not?
Do you mean to say, 'I will keep playing the flute and let Rome burn?'
| | | | | Comparative purchasing power | Sep 25, 2015 |
Sandesh Ghimire wrote:
Should there be a business ethics? Or not?
Do you mean to say, 'I will keep playing the flute and let Rome burn?'
I know that cost of living varies among countries. You had better judge from the the comparative price level of the translator in question. If he/she cannot live on such income, he/she is like a slave worker. This is a legal issue and you should help cooperate with the matter.
Soonthon L.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 10:55
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Bring them onboard to proz.com | Sep 25, 2015 |
Sandesh Ghimire wrote:
I happened to know of a few in-house translators in my language pair who have been severely exploited by one of fellow translators (of course, a proz member). They happened to talk to me. They claimed that he has them translate at least 2000 words a day and pay them $250 per month,, meaning that they are getting $250 for 60 k words.
Of course it is none of my business. But it feels very very bad. What do you think I should do? Do I let it go and mind own business or speak up to help them out.
Help!
These translator slaves (I think this term is justified) can only be set free if they cease their reliance on these slave drivers. The only way they can do this is if they can find alternative ways of earning an income.
You could probably introduce them to proz.com and how it works and how it can bring these translators in touch with clients and agencies all over the world and can fetch them better rates. They probably have never heard of proz.com (when I first heard of proz.com by random internet surfing, I had already been translating for local clients for years) and even if they have heard of proz.com they will need initial guidance and hand holding in bidding for jobs, setting up their profiles, opening bank accounts, paypal accounts and such mundane things. No translation course that I know of teaches all these things, and these things can easily discourage and daunt a new translator.
Many of them might not even have their own computers or laptops - if they are getting paid 250 dollars a month, they certainly can't afford these basic tools of our profession. They would probably be working out of office space provided by their exploiters on computers belonging to their exploiters, using internet connections belonging to their exploiters. To break free they will have to acquire all this infrastructure for themselves.
They might be living in rented rooms sharing them with many others like them, which do not provide the right environment for sustained translation work. They will need to move out into reasonable spaces which allows them to work from home - which means they will have to pay higher rent, which they currently can't, given they only earn 250 USD a month.
So, according to me, the most difficult part for them would be to break out of this vicious cycle. They need basic start up capital for this, and I don't see from where they can get it. I don't think any bank will fund them. If they are lucky, they may get help from friends or relatives, or, if you are in a position to lend them some money you should do it. And if you pick a really talented translator, he will be able to pay you back in six months.
This is the tragedy of unorganized workers, who have no safety net to fall back on. Translators could perhaps help each other, but most won't be inclined to such philanthropy.
May be translators in the richer countries who can spare the money can sponsor or mentor one or two of these translators of promise and help them stand up on their feet. You could perhaps help in identifying the ones who are eligible - the ones who have drive, talent and determination to get out of their trap and who show high promise of succeeding if given the initial push. They could return the initial funding provided to them, may be with a small interest amount added, in say a year or so. And an undertaking can be taken from them that if they make it in the translation profession they will help two more translators to become self-dependant, who should also make the same commitment, thus creating a snowballing movement which can lift a huge number of translators who are in such a morass.
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:25
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Sandesh Ghimire wrote:
I happened to know of a few in-house translators in my language pair who have been severely exploited by one of fellow translators (of course, a proz member). They happened to talk to me. They claimed that he has them translate at least 2000 words a day and pay them $250 per month,, meaning that they are getting $250 for 60 k words.
Of course it is none of my business. But it feels very very bad. What do you think I should do? Do I let it go and mind own business or speak up to help them out.
You mean they are employed by this person, rather than collaborating as freelancers? I'm not sure I would classify someone who has a few translator (as opposed to PM) employees as a 'fellow translator'. It sounds as though this person is maybe running an agency, but even more likely is that he is running more of a sweatshop company than a professional translation business. But once you start talking of employment, you're in areas which have some regulation in many countries, whereas freelancing is generally completely deregulated.
I suspect you're talking about employer and employees both local to you? Are there employment laws for workers there and do they apply in this case? Wikipedia gives the minimum wage in Nepal as 8000 Nepalese rupees per month, equivalent to only about 75 US dollars today. Wikipedia may be out-of-date or misleading, and of course translators shouldn't be on the minimum, but this does rather show the figures in a different light.
I'm just trying to find out which light we should be using here. Comparing the rate of a freelancer in, say, Europe or the US, with the wage of an employee in Nepal is not at all a simple matter. Apart from anything else, you have to consider how much of what a freelancer earns is taken from him/her in taxes, social security, private pensions and insurance, business expenses etc. And the fact that the freelancer has no paid leave or sickness benefits, no access to further training etc.
If this employer is breaking local laws, then I'd say it would be good to help these people obtain their rights. If it's a case of a company treating its employees fairly under the local laws, I don't see that there's anything you can do. Of course, they can leave!
But I think we need far more information before we can really help you.
| | | | | Tell them about Proz | Sep 25, 2015 |
If you just get them all worked up about their unfair conditions and they up and quit their jobs, are you going to feed them?
How about this: tell them about Proz and other translation forums. Tell them about standard translation rates for their pair. Let them do their own research and find other clients on their own so they can leave their old job when they're ready. They're grown men and women. Give them the info and let them fend for themselves.
| | | | Sandesh Ghimire
Nepal
Local time: 11:10
Nepali to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I don't know what you call him, a PM, I am not sure. | Sep 25, 2015 |
[quote]Sheila Wilson wrote:
You mean they are employed by this person, rather than collaborating as freelancers? I'm not sure I would classify someone who has a few translator (as opposed to PM) employees as a 'fellow translator'. It sounds as though this person is maybe running an agency, but even more likely is that he is running more of a sweatshop company than a professional translation business. But once you start talking of employment, you're in areas which have some regulation in many countries, whereas freelancing is generally completely deregulated.
He is heard to ask his employees to report to his office at 9 AM and have them work through the day till 5 PM, except for a break of 1 hour for lunch. The translators don't have access to the internet. If they must have an access for a certain job, their activities are censured. He has them do the sample translations (if necessary) and grabs whatever falls into his hands. 'He's never rejected a job offer'" the fellow translator says. He ranks very high in translations networks unfortunately. (Don't know if I had to reveal it).
[Edited at 2015-09-25 12:03 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-09-25 12:04 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-09-25 12:05 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-09-25 12:05 GMT]
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 13:25
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Let them rot | Sep 25, 2015 |
I will keep playing the flute and let Rome burn?
Of course. They set the fire themselves.
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John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 01:25
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Apples and oranges | Sep 25, 2015 |
I agree with Sheila and I don't think you can compare the rate for in-house employees with freelancers. If it's true that they are earning 3.33 times the local minimum wage as employees it puts a different light on it. Don't forget that an employee doesn't bear any of the responsibilities that a freelancer does - basically an employee has to turn up at the agreed times and do the agreed work, but is not responsible for finding the work, dealing with clients, managing finances, billings and col... See more I agree with Sheila and I don't think you can compare the rate for in-house employees with freelancers. If it's true that they are earning 3.33 times the local minimum wage as employees it puts a different light on it. Don't forget that an employee doesn't bear any of the responsibilities that a freelancer does - basically an employee has to turn up at the agreed times and do the agreed work, but is not responsible for finding the work, dealing with clients, managing finances, billings and collections, buying and maintaining equipment and software, or, ultimately, being liable for his work. All of those are the employer's responsibility, which a freelancer takes on and reflects in his/her rate. There are many people who are unwilling or unable to take on these responsibilities and therefore remain employees.
The site Salary Explorer gives a figure of 31,214 NPR/month ($294 at today's rate) for the average monthly income in Nepal, which is not totally out of range with the figure of $250.
[Edited at 2015-09-25 14:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 01:25
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Sheila Wilson wrote: Sandesh Ghimire wrote:
I happened to know of a few in-house translators in my language pair who have been severely exploited by one of fellow translators (of course, a proz member). They happened to talk to me. They claimed that he has them translate at least 2000 words a day and pay them $250 per month,, meaning that they are getting $250 for 60 k words.
Of course it is none of my business. But it feels very very bad. What do you think I should do? Do I let it go and mind own business or speak up to help them out. You mean they are employed by this person, rather than collaborating as freelancers? I'm not sure I would classify someone who has a few translator (as opposed to PM) employees as a 'fellow translator'. It sounds as though this person is maybe running an agency, but even more likely is that he is running more of a sweatshop company than a professional translation business. But once you start talking of employment, you're in areas which have some regulation in many countries, whereas freelancing is generally completely deregulated. I suspect you're talking about employer and employees both local to you? Are there employment laws for workers there and do they apply in this case? Wikipedia gives the minimum wage in Nepal as 8000 Nepalese rupees per month, equivalent to only about 75 US dollars today. Wikipedia may be out-of-date or misleading, and of course translators shouldn't be on the minimum, but this does rather show the figures in a different light. I'm just trying to find out which light we should be using here. Comparing the rate of a freelancer in, say, Europe or the US, with the wage of an employee in Nepal is not at all a simple matter. Apart from anything else, you have to consider how much of what a freelancer earns is taken from him/her in taxes, social security, private pensions and insurance, business expenses etc. And the fact that the freelancer has no paid leave or sickness benefits, no access to further training etc. If this employer is breaking local laws, then I'd say it would be good to help these people obtain their rights. If it's a case of a company treating its employees fairly under the local laws, I don't see that there's anything you can do. Of course, they can leave! But I think we need far more information before we can really help you.
[Edited at 2015-09-25 18:56 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:25
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote:
Many translators, particularly Chinese translators, thought in-house means freelancing.
Well, until we've got that cleared up I don't think any advice is really worth much in the current circumstances, whatever they are .
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