| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Confidence Level = 5 Thread poster: DLyons
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| | Thomas Pfann 
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:25
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
| We don't use CL5 enough | Aug 20, 2012 |
Well, while writing this reply I had a complete change of mind. First, I meant to agree with what most of you have been saying but now I actually came to think that we do not use CL5 enough.
It might be different in other language pairs but for "my" KudoZ interest pairs (ENDE) I have the impression that most answerers tend to be too modest to use CL5. (I hardly ever use it myself.)
However, the short definition of the CL ("Highest = I'm sure, Lowest = I'm guessing") is... See more Well, while writing this reply I had a complete change of mind. First, I meant to agree with what most of you have been saying but now I actually came to think that we do not use CL5 enough.
It might be different in other language pairs but for "my" KudoZ interest pairs (ENDE) I have the impression that most answerers tend to be too modest to use CL5. (I hardly ever use it myself.)
However, the short definition of the CL ("Highest = I'm sure, Lowest = I'm guessing") is absolutely clear and I don't see a need for further clarification and guidance which would only complicate things.
I don't think a CL5 rules out any alternative answers either. It merely says that the answerer is sure that his or her answer is valid. There may still be other equally acceptable answers or even better ones but as long as you are sure that your answer is correct and fits the context then CL5 should be used.
If you are confident say it and don't beat around the bush. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 04:25
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Jared wrote:
Perhaps some experienced answerers could come up with a short tutorial on the effective use of confidence level, if more guidance is needed?
I think the problem is that "I am sure" means different things to different people. To some, it simply means "I don't think I have any doubts about it", but for others it means "I will stake my professional reputation on it". I think the latter is what is intended by "5".
Perhaps the scale in the FAQ (and in the reply posting form) should be changed so that all five numbers have a description:
Highest - My answer is undisputably correct (I'll stake my reputation on it)
High - My answer is probably correct, to the best of my knowledge
Medium - My answer is most likely correct, but I can't be 100% certain
Low - My answer is an educated guess, based on professional experience
Lowest - My answer is just a wild guess, based on everyday experience
==
Edited: Sorry, Ty, I didn't see your proposed scale.
[Edited at 2012-08-20 16:27 GMT]
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 10:25
Chinese to English
| right vs. useful | Aug 20, 2012 |
There's a bit of tension in Kudoz between the idea of being right and the idea of being useful.
You get points for being most useful. Obviously, much of the time a right answer is the most useful answer, but not always.
And for many questions there's no such thing as a "right" answer. If someone asks for suggestions about how to translate a culture-specific term, you can offer an idea, but it would be silly to say you're "sure". Sometimes a Kudoz question is: this is ob... See more There's a bit of tension in Kudoz between the idea of being right and the idea of being useful.
You get points for being most useful. Obviously, much of the time a right answer is the most useful answer, but not always.
And for many questions there's no such thing as a "right" answer. If someone asks for suggestions about how to translate a culture-specific term, you can offer an idea, but it would be silly to say you're "sure". Sometimes a Kudoz question is: this is obviously a typo, what's your best guess for what it was supposed to be. Sometimes it's what do you think about the construction of this sentence? Again, these aren't right/wrong-style scenarios.
On the other hand, for technical terms, there might well be one particular "right" answer.
I quite like the laconic explanation given in the FAQ now. If it is specified any further, I think it might fail to cover the variety of questions we get on Kudoz. ▲ Collapse
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ATIL KAYHAN
Türkiye
Local time: 05:25
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
| Ty's Explanation of Scale | Aug 20, 2012 |
In my language pair of English/Turkish, most answerers are not very modest about themselves, and they tend to use CL5 quite frequently. I tend to use 3 most frequently because it is the middle of the scale. So, I guess it changes from language pair to language pair.
I personally find Ty's explanation of the scale pretty useful. Of course, we may do some brainstorming on it if we need to improve it further. Current ProZ explanation is below:
Highest - I am sure
... See more In my language pair of English/Turkish, most answerers are not very modest about themselves, and they tend to use CL5 quite frequently. I tend to use 3 most frequently because it is the middle of the scale. So, I guess it changes from language pair to language pair.
I personally find Ty's explanation of the scale pretty useful. Of course, we may do some brainstorming on it if we need to improve it further. Current ProZ explanation is below:
Highest - I am sure
High
Medium
Low
Lowest - I am guessing
Compare it with Ty's explanation, and the difference is like between day and night. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 04:25
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Right vs useful | Aug 20, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote:
There's a bit of tension in Kudoz between the idea of being right and the idea of being useful.
A related problem is that when you choose an answer, you can't choose a most correct answer and a most useful answer separately -- you are asked to choose the most useful answer, and if it is not the most correct answer, you simply uncheck the option to add it to the glossary. A bit silly, really.
| | | | ATIL KAYHAN
Türkiye
Local time: 05:25
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
| Distinction between Right and Useful | Aug 20, 2012 |
I personally do not get the distinction between a right answer and a useful answer. To me, the right answer to the question should also be the useful one, and vice versa. If you are able to make a distinction between a right answer and a useful answer, then perhaps you are flexing an answer to make it fit the context (creating a useful answer for the question), and such a action should really not be allowed. Context is very important. However, context is not the dictator. This is why KudoZ ... See more I personally do not get the distinction between a right answer and a useful answer. To me, the right answer to the question should also be the useful one, and vice versa. If you are able to make a distinction between a right answer and a useful answer, then perhaps you are flexing an answer to make it fit the context (creating a useful answer for the question), and such a action should really not be allowed. Context is very important. However, context is not the dictator. This is why KudoZ is both and art and a science. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | definitions and unwritten laws | Aug 20, 2012 |
There are "official" definitions of what CL1 to 5 should apply to. These could be changed or left as is.
The problem does not lie there.
The problem is with the unwritten laws applied by the "older" members of the site, who have no qualms in privately warning newbies off the use of CL5 and/or the "disagree" function. Pressure is brought to bear, not always in the nicest possible way.
In the beginning I had the temerity to disagree with something that was rubbish. I received a ... See more There are "official" definitions of what CL1 to 5 should apply to. These could be changed or left as is.
The problem does not lie there.
The problem is with the unwritten laws applied by the "older" members of the site, who have no qualms in privately warning newbies off the use of CL5 and/or the "disagree" function. Pressure is brought to bear, not always in the nicest possible way.
In the beginning I had the temerity to disagree with something that was rubbish. I received a short sharp message telling me to back off and use "neutral", which I have since done for the sake of peace and quiet.
As to CL5, most questions I answer are over style issues and 5 is a non-starter. However, at times there are technical questions and, with my technical/engineering background, I know the right answer. I used to put CL5 for these until I found that some people are determined to prove the CL 5 answers wrong even to the extent of leading askers down the garden path. I have generally backed down on in these cases too for the sake of peace and to try to convince askers in more subtle fashion.
CL5 for some people is indeed arrogant ignorance or vice versa and the result is that even those who know what they are talking about are not believed.
Another example of dumbing down.... ▲ Collapse
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Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 20:25
English to Spanish
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In memoriam | 5 = I would use it | Aug 20, 2012 |
To me, confidence level 5 = I'm sure = I would use that answer if the translation were mine given the context presented. I normally answer questions in which I can make a positive contribution and I am not guessing, although on occasion I will offer an answer with a lower confidence level if I think it could be helpful.
A 5 does not mean that it is the only possible answer; in some cases there could be many equally viable alternatives. It only means that it is one solution I would u... See more To me, confidence level 5 = I'm sure = I would use that answer if the translation were mine given the context presented. I normally answer questions in which I can make a positive contribution and I am not guessing, although on occasion I will offer an answer with a lower confidence level if I think it could be helpful.
A 5 does not mean that it is the only possible answer; in some cases there could be many equally viable alternatives. It only means that it is one solution I would use. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 04:25
French to German
+ ...
Henry Hinds wrote:
To me, confidence level 5 = I'm sure = I would use that answer if the translation were mine given the context presented. I normally answer questions in which I can make a positive contribution and I am not guessing, although on occasion I will offer an answer with a lower confidence level if I think it could be helpful.
A 5 does not mean that it is the only possible answer; in some cases there could be many equally viable alternatives. It only means that it is one solution I would use.
Actually I have taken the habit of NOT answering KudoZ anymore if my CL is lower than what I deem to be 4.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:25
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| If this was "Spinal Tap"... | Aug 21, 2012 |
....I would have a special facility for awarding a Confidence Level of 6 !
Seriously though - there are not many situations in life where one can be 100% certain of being right. Anyone who answers a kudoz question with 100% certainty runs the risk of being made to look foolish by other answerers who make better suggestions, with a lower degree of certainty.
| | | | DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 03:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Ignorant arrogance | Aug 22, 2012 |
writeaway wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance
Ignorant arrogance 
I was discussing with a friend of mine, which of these traits a common acquaintance
of ours has.
My friend felt the acquaintance suffered from both. "The word I use for people like that", he said, "is illegiterate".
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| The Dunning-Kruger effect | Aug 22, 2012 |
Very interesting. Thank you for the link, Urbom!
| | | | ATIL KAYHAN
Türkiye
Local time: 05:25
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
| Explanation of the Scale | Aug 25, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
Maybe there should also be more definitive clarification from ProZ about the meaning of the scale too.
CL1 - Complete guess
CL2 - Educated guess
CL3 - I think this is the answer and have some evidence to back it up.
CL4 - I'm quite secure in this answer and have a lot of evidence to back it up.
CL5 - There is no other better alternative than this answer (even if alternatives exist) and I have a preponderance of evidence to substantiate and justify this confidence.
The above is just an example, loosely based on how I view the scale.
I think the above explanation/clarification of the scale is pretty satisfactory. It should clear some misunderstandings regarding the use of the scale. We should seriously think about adopting it. Thank you Ty.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:25
Hebrew to English
ATIL KAYHAN wrote: Ty Kendall wrote:
Maybe there should also be more definitive clarification from ProZ about the meaning of the scale too.
CL1 - Complete guess
CL2 - Educated guess
CL3 - I think this is the answer and have some evidence to back it up.
CL4 - I'm quite secure in this answer and have a lot of evidence to back it up.
CL5 - There is no other better alternative than this answer (even if alternatives exist) and I have a preponderance of evidence to substantiate and justify this confidence.
The above is just an example, loosely based on how I view the scale. I think the above explanation/clarification of the scale is pretty satisfactory. It should clear some misunderstandings regarding the use of the scale. We should seriously think about adopting it. Thank you Ty.
It's how I try to approach using the scale. I try not to antagnoize anyone with overuse of CL5 and sticking (roughly) to these criteria has enabled me to navigate KudoZ-Office politics without making too many ripples.
I would clarify that for CL5 I'm not saying that my answer is the one and only, I'm merely saying that although I know there are several options, the answer I am attaching CL5 to is the preferred (in my language variant), most appropriate and idiomatic option for this specific context, in this particular sentence.
Although there are certainly cases where I've given CL5 for an answer I did truly believe was the only viable option.
[Edited at 2012-08-25 08:07 GMT]
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