| Număr de pagini: < [1 2] | A poll - Kudoz confidence - can you be a bit pregnant? Inițiatorul discuției: Aleksandr Okunev (X)
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Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 17:13
din engleză în rusă
INIŢIATORUL SUBIECTULUI | Some random thoughts and Asker Rating (?) | Mar 11, 2005 |
I see no point in using this "confidence level" at all.
Hi, Kirill, I admire the way you confirmed my idea sort of without actually confirming it
Now, just as I was going to make everyone scream with joy upon seeing my brilliant system of mean confidence evaluation system which I created with a pocket calculator in my hand, something told me to browse Kudoz forums and I happily discovered that this issue has a long history. The arguments are quite interesting, but my general impression still is: a conscientious answerer
a) needs from 1 to 3 confidence level(s);
b) will never abuse the system.
Other conclusions are
a) the confidence adjustment system is heatedly debated but not implemented by Henry & Co.
b) therefore there must be reasons for that.
Why confidence is misleading? Because any such system is subjective and open to abuse. Even with an answerer like myself (as I said above, I do not care about Kudoz points, honestly), my constant '1' confidence level and a certain number of accepted answers will make my 'adjusted' confidence higher than I deserve, let alone those folks who want (for some obscure reasons) to boost their Kudoz rating. To sum it up, here, in confidence level I would be happy with 3 levels at the most:
1 - "100% sure" (don't spit in the monitor, you CAN tell what 'volume control" is in a DVD stereo system);
2 - "Most likely" (no need to elaborate, it it?) and
3 - "Food for thought" (I sometimes give such answers, knowing for sure that they would not fit but might help the asker to continue digging more effectively)
Now, why cannot we state 5? Too many good translators in this thread keep saying that they cannot be 100% sure answering Kudoz. At the same time we all somehow do our jobs and get paid. My conclusion is - bad is the Kudoz question which hundreds of professionals cannon answer. I myself have asked such questions and gave fellow translators a royal PITA. Other lists I take part in contain much more much harder terms but I cannot remember a time when no answer was found. This is achieved, I believe, because the process of finding the right answer is a) a two-way process, involving much feedback from the asker; b) involves a far greater range of opinions, not even necessarily 'to the point', because the format of such forums allows it (generally it's a mailing list).
Now, why most askers are so passive on Proz? My subjective impression is that some of them are sure or subconsciously feel that the point reward is more than enough for the fellow translators answering the question, it is some sort of a job given by a master to subordinates, therefore, extensive asker assistance is not a must. I would like to be proven wrong, but you know, at the age of 40 one has few illusions. This my opinion is also substantiated by a general mood on Proz that a job poster is some kind of a God-like creature, when a translator criticized one of very active job posters in the forums for some minor issues (the issues did exist) more translators than I consider enough attacked her quite rudely, the general idea was "Shut up, because she gives us jobs!" My personal view is that it is God who does it, and folks thinking otherwise are taught a lesson, sooner or later, but the fact, I dare say, is: Whoever is on the paying side at Proz is regarded as a superior, which leads to a slide in priorities.
On the basis of the above here's my another brilliant invention: asker rating. Of course, we all know whose questions should go straight to bin, but very often I just do not have the heart not to go and answer or agree and then get mad again. I think asker rating should reflect the quality of her/his questions, a sort of mean answerer confidence level. The thing is that every translator should finally get pregnant = be 100% sure about a translation, otherwise it is not a translator. When an agency continuously fails to provide terminology assistance you dump that agency, I'm afraid the same should be done with askers, but a chance should be given to them to a) see their average stats b) improve.
And some technical issues.
I think, asker rating or not, confidence level (whatever choice we have) should open to change all the time until the question is closed, simply because the notes fields operate throughout this entire time and there may be more feedback from the asker. Another alternative is to abandon confidence level at all and use agree/disagree only (I like this one). The more people say you're pregnant - the pregnanter you are!
Another technical thing is Since we (or sooner Proz) cannot do without points at all, why should I give points to just one person? It is a form of gratitude and should be distributed between many or all the answerers, because every effort counts, I hope you would not deny that. Grading, I think should be done in a form of placing all the answers on a ladder, each answer getting its share according to the position on the ladder, the accepted answer gets an extra. Technically it IS possible.
I've run out of my time cannot re-read it, so, please be merciful and, please, tell me what are your thoughts so far.
Stay well
Alex
| | | | Kirill Semenov 
Ucraina
Local time: 17:13
Membru (2004)
din engleză în rusă
+ ...
| kudoz and translation are different things | Mar 11, 2005 |
Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
Too many good translators in this thread keep saying that they cannot be 100% sure answering Kudoz. At the same time we all somehow do our jobs and get paid.
Yes we do. Because the texts we translate are usually coherent and `a bit' larger than a kudoZ question. Questions/terms asked in kudoZ are not coherent, they are just words often cut out of their immediate contextual environment, not mentioning the text as a whole. That's the difference, and it matters. The more context we have the more sure we are. It's impossible and senseless to post all 5000 words of a job as a context to a two-word phrase (anyway, nobody will read all the text).
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 17:13
din engleză în rusă
INIŢIATORUL SUBIECTULUI | Be practical & positive | Mar 11, 2005 |
Kirill Semenov wrote: The more context we have the more sure we are. It's impossible and senseless to post all 5000 words of a job as a context to a two-word phrase (anyway, nobody will read all the text).
You do not need to eat all soup to know its taste, Kirill. Are you saying it is fundamentally impossible to provide all the necessary context in Kudoz format for the answerers to make the right choice?
Stay well
Aleksandr
~~~~~~~~~
| | | | Kirill Semenov
Ucraina
Local time: 17:13
Membru (2004)
din engleză în rusă
+ ...
| In most cases -- no | Mar 11, 2005 |
Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
Are you saying it is fundamentally impossible to provide all the necessary context in Kudoz format for the answerers to make the right choice?
Basically, I believe that a sentence is the smallest and indivisible part of translation. Moreover, a sentence belongs to a paragraph, and a paragraph -- to the text to be translated as a whole. Since in kudoZ we see mostly terms or several words, but not sentences, and, moreover, when questions which consist of more than 10 word are to be squashed, I do not think that any context, however wide, may be a basis for a_100%_ confidence. Please note that I'm speaking of probabilities and confidence level here. An answer may be very good and precise, but never 100% fitting from the viewpoint of an answerer. Just because an answerer does not know everything what the asker knows -- that's my point.
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Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 17:13
din engleză în rusă
INIŢIATORUL SUBIECTULUI | Forever half-pregnant | Mar 11, 2005 |
I am going to be, following Kirill's example and some ideas expressed in this thread. Thanks a lot to everyone for sharing your views.
Happy confidence rating!
Alex
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 17:13
din engleză în rusă
INIŢIATORUL SUBIECTULUI | Here I am again with my Kudos problemz | Sep 30, 2005 |
Would anyone tell me if you support the
idea of "NOT FOR GRADING" confidence
level which will not be acounted for in
your total Kudoz score if declined or
selected as "the correctest" answer?
Please, let me know.
Aleksandr
P.S. Happy Translator's Day!
[Edited at 2005-09-30 18:11]
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