An Israel-based client with sales office in UK (without address, only phone number) Initiator des Themas: Maija Cirule
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Maija Cirule 
Lettland
Local time: 00:53
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
is due me ca 500 euros and says that their "payment term" is up to 75 days. In my invoice the term 45 days was specified and they did not reject the invoice until receipt of my first reminder. Moreover, I have never signed any agreement regarding their payment terms. Dear colleagues can somebody from Israel give me some advice as to small claims court or similar entity availability in Israel.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spanien
Local time: 22:53
Mitglied (2007)
Englisch
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| Did you specify your terms when accepting the job? | Dec 16, 2015 |
Maija Cirule wrote:
their "payment term" is up to 75 days. In my invoice the term 45 days was specified
If the first that was said about payment terms was on the invoice, and they are planning to pay at 75 days, it might not be worth doing anything other than waiting. If that IS the case, i.e. there was no clear arrangement made, the courts might not find in your favour. They would certainly insist on the invoice being paid, but maybe not before 75 days. And anyway, no court in the world is likely to act quickly enough to get you your money before the 75-day limit. I'd mark it up to experience personally - and remember to state terms, and get them accepted, before starting work in the future.
| | | | Maija Cirule
Lettland
Local time: 00:53
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | Their terms were specified in PO 45 days from the date of invoice. | Dec 16, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: Maija Cirule wrote:
their "payment term" is up to 75 days. In my invoice the term 45 days was specified If the first that was said about payment terms was on the invoice, and they are planning to pay at 75 days, it might not be worth doing anything other than waiting. If that IS the case, i.e. there was no clear arrangement made, the courts might not find in your favour. They would certainly insist on the invoice being paid, but maybe not before 75 days. And anyway, no court in the world is likely to act quickly enough to get you your money before the 75-day limit. I'd mark it up to experience personally - and remember to state terms, and get them accepted, before starting work in the future.
Now they say that the date of invoice means the last day of the current month. I don't need the money right now but during 20+ years in this business I have never encountered such a barefaced impudence. And as I always have received my money, I think that I know how to check a client and specify payment and other terms.
[Edited at 2015-12-16 16:42 GMT]
| | | | Kevin Fulton
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 17:53
Deutsch > Englisch
| Probably no basis for a claim – YET | Dec 16, 2015 |
Maija Cirule wrote:
Dear colleagues can somebody from Israel give me some advice as to small claims court or similar entity availability in Israel.
If the agency has stated in writing at some point that they pay 75 days after invoicing, then in all likelihood you unfortunately don't have a claim until some reasonable period after the expiration of the 75 days. A collection agency probably wouldn't be interested until payment was well overdue, according to the client's payment date.
It's not a good situation, but I suspect you're stuck, at least for right now.
Good luck with this.
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Sheila Wilson
Spanien
Local time: 22:53
Mitglied (2007)
Englisch
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| nn days end of month is quite normal in my experience | Dec 16, 2015 |
Maija Cirule wrote:
Now they say that the date of invoice means the last day of the current month.
I actually quote 30 days EOM myself. But that's my limit and anyway I most often send monthly invoices on the last day of the month.
30 EOM, in the worst case, can equate to 60 days; and 45 EOM can equate to 75, it's true. They should have made that clear .
| | | | Maija Cirule
Lettland
Local time: 00:53
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
Sheila Wilson wrote: Maija Cirule wrote:
Now they say that the date of invoice means the last day of the current month. I actually quote 30 days EOM myself. But that's my limit and anyway I most often send monthly invoices on the last day of the month. 30 EOM, in the worst case, can equate to 60 days; and 45 EOM can equate to 75, it's true. They should have made that clear .
Their PO did not specify "End of month", it reads Payment term: Current and disclaimer says: Payment schedule begins from the date of invoice receipt. As English is not their native language, maybe they do not understand meaning of "receipt" and think that "receipt" is the same as "acceptance" or something along these lines but I cannot and must not be familiar with their way of thinking.
| | | | | Wait and see approach | Dec 16, 2015 |
My suggestion: wait and see if they really do pay you after 75 days. If they do, take the money and run. If they don't, maybe you can start collection proceedings against their office in the UK. If they really have one it's not just a virtual address/marketing gimmick, that is.
| | | | Maija Cirule
Lettland
Local time: 00:53
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
TransAfrique wrote:
My suggestion: wait and see if they really do pay you after 75 days. If they do, take the money and run. If they don't, maybe you can start collection proceedings against their office in the UK. If they really have one it's not just a virtual address/marketing gimmick, that is.
that they have no intent to pay, because their PO says 45 days after receipt of the invoice and only now when the payment deadline is past they have fabricated the version that in reality this phrase means 45 days after current month. As I submitted my invoice on 01.11.2015, they think that the due date is 15 January. I shall wait till proz invoicing system issues the 3rd reminder and then post a feedback on Blue Board and Wall of fame and shame as well as LinkedIn:)
[Edited at 2015-12-17 11:41 GMT]
I took a look at my invoices and established that during the past year I have had ca 40 clients and no one of them has swindled me. Actually, no one of them is Israel- based. Money isn't the main problem simply I have no intent to allow a small agency from the middle of nowhere to behave as a mafia boss.
[Edited at 2015-12-17 12:17 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-12-17 12:18 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-12-17 12:18 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-12-17 12:35 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-12-17 15:49 GMT]
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| Current month + 75 days | Dec 24, 2015 |
Maija Cirule wrote:
Now they say that the date of invoice means the last day of the current month. I don't need the money right now but during 20+ years in this business I have never encountered such a barefaced impudence.
In Israel, it is very common that the date of the invoice means the last day of the current month.
Do not think it will mean you won't be paid. 75 days is a long time and I do agree with what others have said that the payment terms should have been agreed up front, prior to starting work together. Perhaps they do have a standard contract that states it, and for some reason the fact that you don't have one with them slipped through the cracks?
From my past experience, some agencies here in Israel do have long payment spans because their own clients give them long payment spans. I know that is not the contractor's problem, but they've set it up to protect themselves from owing money before they receive it. My guess is that in this case their client has given them "end of current month" + 60 days.
As for small claims court, I have no idea. Fortunately, I've never had to use something like that.
| | | | Maija Cirule
Lettland
Local time: 00:53
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | Thank you so much for the clarification | Dec 28, 2015 |
Jody Parente wrote: Maija Cirule wrote:
Now they say that the date of invoice means the last day of the current month. I don't need the money right now but during 20+ years in this business I have never encountered such a barefaced impudence. In Israel, it is very common that the date of the invoice means the last day of the current month. Do not think it will mean you won't be paid. 75 days is a long time and I do agree with what others have said that the payment terms should have been agreed up front, prior to starting work together. Perhaps they do have a standard contract that states it, and for some reason the fact that you don't have one with them slipped through the cracks? From my past experience, some agencies here in Israel do have long payment spans because their own clients give them long payment spans. I know that is not the contractor's problem, but they've set it up to protect themselves from owing money before they receive it. My guess is that in this case their client has given them "end of current month" + 60 days. As for small claims court, I have no idea. Fortunately, I've never had to use something like that.
now I see the meaning of the proverb "After shaking hands with a Greek (in my case a conman), count your fingers". If the person had said that the payment will be after 75 days instead of 45, I would never touched him with a barge pole.
[Edited at 2015-12-28 15:15 GMT]
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