| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14] > | Proposal that people who post questions via the Kudoz system be obliged to provide context Thread poster: Helen Shiner
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| Pay if it's worth it for you. | Jan 8, 2011 |
philgoddard wrote:
My paid membership runs out in a few days' time, and I decided I wasn't going to renew it in protest against...
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What would you do?
Removed by me, Cilian, because not relevant to original posting (and would probably have been censored anyway).
[Edited at 2011-01-08 00:20 GMT]
| | | | | Survey results related to the topic of this thread | Jan 14, 2011 |
Hello all,
My thanks to those who took part in the two term help system surveys that were run, and to those who took the time to provide feedback one-on-one. Here is a summary of the results of the general survey which relate to the topic of this thread:
There were over 500 respondents to the general survey.
On the subject of the provision of context when asking questions:
- 64% found the issue of context "very relevant" to the overall qu
... See more Hello all,
My thanks to those who took part in the two term help system surveys that were run, and to those who took the time to provide feedback one-on-one. Here is a summary of the results of the general survey which relate to the topic of this thread:
There were over 500 respondents to the general survey.
On the subject of the provision of context when asking questions:
- 64% found the issue of context "very relevant" to the overall quality of the KudoZ system.
- Nearly 80% agreed that term context is necessary to provide good answers to a term help question, 20% saying that it depended on the term/question.
Of the proposed solutions for ensuring that more or sufficient context is provided in term questions by askers,
- "Improving the 'explanation/context' field to incite more and better context when a question is submitted" ranked first, at just under 35%
- "Educating/orienting less experienced term help askers on the relation between good context and good answers" ranked second, at 26%
- "Providing better ways for answerers to request more context when they find it insufficient" came in third, at 25%
- "A voting system whereby answerers may hide incoming questions from public view until 'enough context' has been entered by the asker" ranked fourth, at 13%
Only 5% stated that they had not been aware that the principal purpose of the KudoZ term help system is to provide term help to askers, and that the resulting glossary entries are an additional benefit of the system.
I have posted more info on the general results of the two surveys in the Translator T.O.
Jared ▲ Collapse
| | | | Helen Shiner 
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:34
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Jared wrote: Hello all, My thanks to those who took part in the two term help system surveys that were run, and to those who took the time to provide feedback one-on-one. Here is a summary of the results of the general survey which relate to the topic of this thread: There were over 500 respondents to the general survey. On the subject of the provision of context when asking questions:
- 64% found the issue of context "very relevant" to the overall quality of the KudoZ system.
- Nearly 80% agreed that term context is necessary to provide good answers to a term help question, 20% saying that it depended on the term/question.
Of the proposed solutions for ensuring that more or sufficient context is provided in term questions by askers,
- "Improving the 'explanation/context' field to incite more and better context when a question is submitted" ranked first, at just under 35%
- "Educating/orienting less experienced term help askers on the relation between good context and good answers" ranked second, at 26%
- "Providing better ways for answerers to request more context when they find it insufficient" came in third, at 25%
- "A voting system whereby answerers may hide incoming questions from public view until 'enough context' has been entered by the asker" ranked fourth, at 13%
Only 5% stated that they had not been aware that the principal purpose of the KudoZ term help system is to provide term help to askers, and that the resulting glossary entries are an additional benefit of the system. I have posted more info on the general results of the two surveys in the Translator T.O. Jared
Thank you, Jared, for posting some of the results here and on the Translator TO.
So it seems that there is quite a strong call for an improvement in the way context is elicted from those posting questions on Kudoz. I have made suggestions about how this might be done, which were not included/mentioned in the survey. I am sure there are other ways of doing this, beyond any further educative move, which is also to be encouraged. Is Proz.com currently considering any solutions to this issue, or would you appreciate further input from users/members of this site?
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Helen Shiner wrote:
So it seems that there is quite a strong call for an improvement in the way context is elicted from those posting questions on Kudoz.
I don't think we can say that based on the survey results. Yes we can say that many find the issue of context relevant and important when it comes to answering. When presented with options for ensuring more or better context, respondents voted as I state in the results.
I have made suggestions about how this might be done, which were not included/mentioned in the survey. I am sure there are other ways of doing this, beyond any further educative move, which is also to be encouraged. Is Proz.com currently considering any solutions to this issue, or would you appreciate further input from users/members of this site?
Improvements to the system (not just the context field) are planned, and as I've mentioned here, some changes have already been made to the context field itself. Further improvements made will be in line with options for which members most show support, and based on an analysis of usage.
Jared
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:34
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Jared wrote: Helen Shiner wrote:
So it seems that there is quite a strong call for an improvement in the way context is elicted from those posting questions on Kudoz.
I don't think we can say that based on the survey results. Yes we can say that many find the issue of context relevant and important when it comes to answering. When presented with options for ensuring more or better context, respondents voted as I state in the results.
I have made suggestions about how this might be done, which were not included/mentioned in the survey. I am sure there are other ways of doing this, beyond any further educative move, which is also to be encouraged. Is Proz.com currently considering any solutions to this issue, or would you appreciate further input from users/members of this site?
Improvements to the system (not just the context field) are planned, and as I've mentioned here, some changes have already been made to the context field itself. Further improvements made will be in line with options for which members most show support, and based on an analysis of usage. Jared
Actually, I based my comments on the results you published, very particularly on the note: ""Improving the 'explanation/context' field to incite more and better context when a question is submitted" ranked first, at just under 35%". Obviously I am aware of what changes you have already made, but this survey was carried out after they were made, so this is a call for further changes. If such changes are in the pipeline, could you please let us know what sort of alterations they are?
If I recall correctly the above option was one of a list of options presented twice in the survey, respondents being asked what their first and second preferences would be. Since it is possible to agree with all statements regardless of order of preference, one should not assume that the options receiving fewer votes were dismissed out of hand. I would be interested to know how people voted the second time they were presented with these options. In general, unless we have access to the full results of the surveys, we cannot judge the outcome and have to take your word for it, and we all know that statistics can be interpreted in so many ways!
This issue is unlikely to go away until it is better resolved. I do hope that Proz.com will choose a route of maximum clarity and accessibility and thus foster a collaborative approach to the issue.
[Edited at 2011-01-19 14:13 GMT]
| | | | | Giving people what they want, or what they need? | Jan 19, 2011 |
Jared wrote:
Further improvements made will be in line with options for which members most show support, and based on an analysis of usage.
Jared
a) taking the last comment first - does that mean you are giving extra weight to the views of those who use the system more?
b) you know, if there were none, it is unlikely that the majority of drivers would vote in favour of introducing speed limits. But we grudgingly accept that they might be a good idea, and we work with them. Democracy is obviously wonderful (by and large, anyway), but those of us with longer experience appreciate that giving the people what they think they want is not always the best option.
It may or may not apply to this specific case, in point, but it's always something worth bearing in mind...
| | | | Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:34
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Helen Shiner wrote: Jared wrote: Helen Shiner wrote:
So it seems that there is quite a strong call for an improvement in the way context is elicted from those posting questions on Kudoz.
I don't think we can say that based on the survey results. Yes we can say that many find the issue of context relevant and important when it comes to answering. When presented with options for ensuring more or better context, respondents voted as I state in the results.
I have made suggestions about how this might be done, which were not included/mentioned in the survey. I am sure there are other ways of doing this, beyond any further educative move, which is also to be encouraged. Is Proz.com currently considering any solutions to this issue, or would you appreciate further input from users/members of this site?
Improvements to the system (not just the context field) are planned, and as I've mentioned here, some changes have already been made to the context field itself. Further improvements made will be in line with options for which members most show support, and based on an analysis of usage. Jared Actually, I based my comments on the results you published, very particularly on the note: ""Improving the 'explanation/context' field to incite more and better context when a question is submitted" ranked first, at just under 35%". Obviously I am aware of what changes you have already made, but this survey was carried out after they were made, so this is a call for further changes. If such changes are in the pipeline, could you please let us know what sort of alterations they are? If I recall correctly the above option was one of a list of options presented twice in the survey, respondents being asked what their first and second preferences would be. Since it is possible to agree with all statements regardless of order of preference, one should not assume that the options receiving fewer votes were dismissed out of hand. I would be interested to know how people voted the second time they were presented with these options. In general, unless we have access to the full results of the surveys, we cannot judge the outcome and have to take your word for it, and we all know that statistics can be interpreted in so many ways! This issue is unlikely to go away until it is better resolved. I do hope that Proz.com will choose a route of maximum clarity and accessibility and thus foster a collaborative approach to the issue. [Edited at 2011-01-19 14:13 GMT]
Please may I have a response to the questions I posted above, Jared. I know a lot of people are waiting for the outcome of this endeavour.
Thanks, Helen
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Responses and percentages for the second option when it came to providing context were distributed similarly to the responses for the first option, to the effect that the ranking was the same, with the exception of the top two options being inverted in the second ranking.
Specific additional changes to the context area in particular are not yet in the pipeline. Improvements to the system (not just the context field) are planned. When changes are made, like those that were mentioned... See more Responses and percentages for the second option when it came to providing context were distributed similarly to the responses for the first option, to the effect that the ranking was the same, with the exception of the top two options being inverted in the second ranking.
Specific additional changes to the context area in particular are not yet in the pipeline. Improvements to the system (not just the context field) are planned. When changes are made, like those that were mentioned in this thread, time is allowed for the changes to take effect and reflection of the changes in usage are observed before moving forward.
Jared ▲ Collapse
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Cedomir Pusica
Serbia
Local time: 21:34
Member (2009)
English to Serbian
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Dear Helen,
I just can't believe why there is so much fuss about the issue?! There is an option of providing more context and when people have it or believe it would help them get the right response - they can fill it in.
Your proposal to ban all the people who don't provide context is counter-productive. Please have in mind that there are frequently short deadlines and one needs an answer fast. It is thoroughly discouraging having to post large chunks of info for high... See more Dear Helen,
I just can't believe why there is so much fuss about the issue?! There is an option of providing more context and when people have it or believe it would help them get the right response - they can fill it in.
Your proposal to ban all the people who don't provide context is counter-productive. Please have in mind that there are frequently short deadlines and one needs an answer fast. It is thoroughly discouraging having to post large chunks of info for higher convenience.
Professional translators know when context is needed.
Sometimes, they have no time: it's either they expect you to have seen the term previously or not.
Sometimes, they put in more info at a later stage.
What is the problem?
No one is making it obligatory for you to answer.  ▲ Collapse
| | | | Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:34
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Cedomir Pusica wrote: Dear Helen, I just can't believe why there is so much fuss about the issue?! There is an option of providing more context and when people have it or believe it would help them get the right response - they can fill it in. Your proposal to ban all the people who don't provide context is counter-productive. Please have in mind that there are frequently short deadlines and one needs an answer fast. It is thoroughly discouraging having to post large chunks of info for higher convenience. Professional translators know when context is needed. Sometimes, they have no time: it's either they expect you to have seen the term previously or not. Sometimes, they put in more info at a later stage. What is the problem? No one is making it obligatory for you to answer.
Dear Cedomir
I would encourage you to read this thread and many of the other ones which touch upon this subject. Your comments indicate that you have not done so. I ask for no such ban.
Helen
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Cedomir Pusica wrote:
There is an option of providing more context and when people have it or believe it would help them get the right response - they can fill it in.
Please have in mind that there are frequently short deadlines and one needs an answer fast. It is thoroughly discouraging having to post large chunks of info for higher convenience.
Professional translators know when context is needed.
Sometimes, they have no time: it's either they expect you to have seen the term previously or not.
Asking a question without taking the trouble to provide decent context is pointless. It's as simple as that.
Garbage In, Garbage Out (abbreviated to GIGO, coined as a pun on the phrase First-In, First-Out) is a phrase in the field of computer science or information and communication technology. It is used primarily to call attention to the fact that computers will unquestioningly process the most nonsensical of input data (garbage in) and produce nonsensical output (garbage out). It was most popular in the early days of computing, but applies even more today, when powerful computers can spew out mountains of erroneous information in a short time. The actual term "Garbage in, garbage out", coined as a teaching mantra by George Fuechsel, an IBM 305 RAMAC technician/instructor in New York, was soon contracted to the acronym "GIGO".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_In,_Garbage_Out
[Edited at 2011-01-21 16:54 GMT]
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Dear Cedomir
I read your comment all the way through and thought you were being serious until I saw the smiley at the end.
Regards
AJS
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| That's hilarious! | Jan 22, 2011 |
Andrew Swift wrote:
Dear Cedomir
I read your comment all the way through and thought you were being serious until I saw the smiley at the end.
Regards
AJS
I would add to the list that "professional translators, as they have often no time - but the answerers have plenty, of course - put up gladly also with guesses".
Thank you for this gem, Cedomir!
[Bearbeitet am 2011-01-22 18:16 GMT]
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 15:34
Spanish to English
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[post removed by poster]
[Edited at 2011-02-05 13:04 GMT]
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 15:34
Spanish to English
+ ...
| What strikes me as an elegant solution... | Feb 5, 2011 |
...to address the overuse/abuse of the Kudoz system would be to implement the following single change:
For anyone who averages more than 40 queries a week, over two or more weeks, have the system automatically post all questions as "not for points" questions.
As for the whole "context" issue, the modification that has been made is (I think) useful and, upon implementation of the above change, answerers can decide whether they want to respond to queries with insuf... See more ...to address the overuse/abuse of the Kudoz system would be to implement the following single change:
For anyone who averages more than 40 queries a week, over two or more weeks, have the system automatically post all questions as "not for points" questions.
As for the whole "context" issue, the modification that has been made is (I think) useful and, upon implementation of the above change, answerers can decide whether they want to respond to queries with insufficient context, filter those askers, or whatever....
This really seems the simplest way to deal with the issue. I hope the staff will seriously consider it. "Serious consideration" would, for me, be much more welcome than a boiler plate acknowledgment of the suggestion.
[Edited at 2011-02-05 13:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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